The Mah-Jongg Q&A Bulletin Board

Evens #1 and Odds #2 and 369 #1: you're right, the "2 pungs and 2 kongs" hands do alternate in Odds and Evens and 369. In fact, those hands are a major source of Consec #7's power.
Anyway, I needed to revise my pie chart...

Thanks, Lynn!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 29, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

How old? Where from? Part 2

On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 09:05:53 AM EDT, Gerardo G wrote:
Re: Question regarding age and origin of a Mah-Jongg set
Hello Tom!
Thank you for your quick reply. I appreciate the information about it and I am going to look further into the suggested column. :)
Best regards,
gerardo.

You're welcome, Gerardo!

How old? Where from?

On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 06:32:34 AM EDT, Gerardo G wrote:
Question regarding age and origin of a Mah-Jongg set
Dear Mr. Sloper,
I hope this email finds you well.
A couple of weeks ago I have purchased a Mah-Jongg set at an auction and while trying to find out a little more about its origin and date, I came across your site.
Could you please provide some information regarding the age and origin from the included pictures when possible?
Below is the question checklist from FAQ 7g.
Thank you for your help!
Best regards,
gerardo.
1- The set consists of tiles, and sticks, no other items like dice nor wind indicators or racks. It is packed in a wooden box with an engraved front vertical lid and it has five drawers, four slim for the tiles and a fifth of double height for the sticks. All sticks appear to be made of bone. There are: 33 marked with two dots, 34 marked with ten dots, 31 marked with 1 dot, eight marked with five dots.
2- The set contains a small booklet in Spanish, referring to the game as Mah-Jongg. The wind tiles, however, are marked in English (E, W, N, S) and not in Spanish (E, O, N, S). There are no indications neither of author nor date.
3- The set as well as the sticks appear to be made of bone. There are tiles that show signs of the Haversian system.
4- The set has been recently purchased in an auction, so no historic information regarding the origin of the set is available.
5- The tiles are 20x28mm. The depth is 12mm, 3mm bone and 9mm wood (bamboo?)
6- The set has 144 tiles and two blanks. It appears that in its original state it had four blanks but two were used to replace 1 bams and 4 bams tiles, as these two pieces show a different and more rustic engraving style. The remaining two blanks have the name of a previous owner engraved.
7- The container is made of reddish wood, fairly weathered. The corners have slim metal protectors that are incomplete. It used to have two handles on the top, but only one remains. One of the shelves appears to have been replaced by a newer one and also the bottom drawer might have some parts replaced. The drawers have bronze handles, some of which are missing.
8- Cracks are of the older kind.
9, 10, 11 - A picture of 1 bams, dragons and flowers is included.
12- There are no jokers in the set.
On Wednesday, March 27, 2024 at 07:46:55 AM EDT, Gerardo G wrote:
Re: Question regarding age and origin of a Mah-Jongg set
Dear Mr. Sloper,
I have just realized that I did not include any tile picture showing the sides. Please find one attached.
Thank you!
Best regards,
gerardo.

Hi, Gerardo! It's about 100 years old and it was made in China. Take a look at column 610.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 27, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

I can't find info on the 2023 card, part 2

On Tuesday, March 26, 2024 at 09:17:01 AM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Diane B
Hello Thomas Sloper,
Donation Received
This email confirms that you have received a donation of $20.00 USD from Diane B.
You can view the transaction details online.
Donation Details
Total amount: $20.00 USD
Currency: U.S. Dollars
Purpose: Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
Contributor: Diane B
Message: Thank you for all of your insight.
PayPal

Thank you, Diane!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 26, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

I can't find info on the 2023 card.

On Tuesday, March 26, 2024 at 08:23:47 AM EDT, Pepper B wrote:
?
Sorry, but I can't find info on the 2023 card.
I have a question on the 2023 section.
Diane

Hi, Diane!
The 2023 card FAQs is at https://sloperama.com/mjfaq/2023.html.

As soon as the 2024 card comes out, the FAQs for that card will be at https://sloperama.com/mjfaq/2024.html. Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 26, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Why do my tiles look like this?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, March 22, 2024 at 09:01:06 AM EDT, Irene G wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: This mahjongg set is different from my others. It is shiny, vibrant, very smooth, and deeply engraved. It appears marbleized on the inside. Can you help me to know why this set looks like this?

Hi, Irene! Those tiles look like that because the manufacturer thought that looked nice and would sell.
I imagine you might be wondering not only "why" but "how." It looks to me like two mixtures were poured together into the mold: translucent, and opaque. As they mixed together, that marbleized "applejuice" look was achieved, much the same way cream poured into coffee or tea swirls around. But the difference with the plastic mixture is that it didn't homogenize the way cream totally combines with the coffee or tea, creating that marbleized look.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 22, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Wrong player rolled the dice, part 2

Re: throwing in and starting over
On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 07:18:00 PM EDT, Dottie T wrote:
Thank you for your quick response. I knew that rule however I took that to mean the game had already begun when the error was discovered as it says, "play continues" ie: Charleston complete and East threw at least the first discard bc 'play' doesn't really begin until first discard. My question had to do with what if it's discovered prior to "play" such as maybe incorrect player rolls dice, breaks wall, takes tiles and next player realizes that the player who rolled is not supposed to be East.
I was trying to save the $1.36 it now costs to get an answer from the league. Thank you again for replying so quickly.
Best Regards,
DOTTIE T

Hi again, Dottie - you're thinking that the rule might not kick in, depending on timing - how far into the incorrect deal the error is discovered. As I see it, the rule kicks in when the wrong player rolls and breaks the wall and other players take tiles. At this point, if you really think the tiles ought to be thrown in, and the others agree, then fine, you can do that. But most people wouldn't want to reshuffle and rebuild. Maybe the players can't perfectly "roll back" their moves. The lesser evil, then, is to just continue, and fix it on the next dice roll.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 21, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

P.S. I hadn't heard of this $1.36 thing.

Wrong player rolled the dice and began the deal. What now?

On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 09:04:24 PM EDT, Dottie T wrote:
throwing in and starting over
Player A was East first and the hand is completed, tiles mixed and walls built. If player C rolls dice and breaks wall, begins the deal and all others follow bc no one is paying attention until finally Player B realizes they should've been East as the Charleston is either under way or not but no tile has been discarded when the error is noticed. Does the Charleston & play continue with Player C being East? If yes, is player B next East, then D or C?
Thank you,
DOTTIE T

Hi, Dottie! This is rule 5 on page 17 of MJME2023.

Player C "incorrectly assumed position of East." Play through the hand, and then the next hand Player B will roll the dice. After Player B's turn as East, skip Player C and give the dice to Player D.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 20, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Where can I find mah-jongg shops in either Okinawa or Kyoto?

On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 11:03:31 AM EDT, Shaun H wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Where can I find mah-jongg shops in either Okinawa or Kyoto?
Sent from my iPhone

囧 Sorry, Shaun, but I've never been to Okinawa and I haven't been to Kyoto in over 30 years (and did not do any mah-jongg shopping on that trip). If you can't do a Google search in Japanese, then maybe your hotel concierge can help.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
First day of spring, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

I'm trying to make my own tiles

Riverside Woodwrights
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Lives in Conway, South Carolina
Tue 6:29 PM
Hi there!
My name is Glenn C, and I am a 23 year old woodworker from South Carolina. My aunt and I have embarked on trying to make our own mah-jongg tiles. She created some artwork, and I have a laser to engrave the custom designs on the faces of the tiles. There is a huge lack of information about the process of making the tiles themselves, especially without a giant factory somewhere to cast the pieces individually. I happened across your site while digging for info and saw that you had quite the understanding of different plastics and some of the processes that go into making the tiles. I am currently making them out of 1/2” acrylic but I’m struggling with the round over along each edge (front and back). I’ve tried using a rock tumbler and it only slightly rounds the edges- Nowhere near the degree of the round over on most of the tiles on the market. I’m sure you are busy, but if you happen to have any time to chat on the phone or via email or text, I would really appreciate it! I’ve been brainstorming, researching, and testing out different methods and materials for weeks and have determined I need an expert! So I guess that’s you!
Hope to talk soon,
If you reply, Riverside Woodwrights will also be able to call you and see info like your Active Status and when you've read messages.

Hi, Glenn!
I'm afraid you misunderstand my level of knowledge into making tiles. I did used to be a modelmaker (engineering processes, electronic toy prototypes), so I am familiar with acrylic. Worked a lot with plexiglas. So I gather that you're taking sheets of 1/2" material and sawing it into rectangles? Then you'd need to sand and polish the saw cuts, right? I have Chinese-made sawn tiles in my collection, complete with circular saw marks and sharp edges.
I've never tumbled rocks but I assume tumbling would scuff the faces of the tiles. You want to fillet the edges, not chamfer or bevel them. The only thing I can think of for that would be a milling machine. It would be a time-consuming process. Or maybe you can set up a table-mounted router.
I don't know for sure how the manufacturers do it, but I imagine they mold or cast the pieces to make blank tiles with rounded edges. In Hong Kong, I saw carvers take those blank tiles and actually carve the designs by hand. I don't know how well a laser would work on that material, so you're ahead of me there.
I hope you find this reply on my bulletin board. Good luck!
May the tiles be with you. Literally!
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 16, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Any thoughts on what happened here?

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 11:36:56 PM EDT, Katherine G wrote:
Mah-Jong Q+A
Hello,
I’m located in Australia and purchased this mahjong set on EBay from a seller in the UK.
I during the shipping I was informed that it was a restricted item and it can’t be delivered. EBay refunded me the purchase price and postage.
Maybe you have any thoughts on this?
Thanks
Kate

G'day, Kate! I can only imagine 2 possibilities for why a mah-jongg set might be "restricted." Either somebody in Australian postal customs thinks mah-jongg sets are made of ivory, or they think it has real jade in it when "jade" is being used in the eBay writeup to describe the color. Ivory is a restricted material because of elephant poaching endangering the species. I just asked Google if jade is a restricted substance, and found that jade "may not be imported into the United States unless the importer certifies (see paragraph (d) of this section) that those jadeite or rubies were mined or extracted from a country other than Burma and possesses the documents" - so, maybe slave labor and/or child labor in the mines in Burma (Myanmar). I suppose there are similar restrictions in Australia. Your UK seller may have mentioned "jade" in the shipping documents. That's all I can think of.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Pi Day, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

How to handle odd numbers of players, part 2

On Saturday, March 9, 2024 at 09:03:59 PM EST, Shea W wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
Thank you!

You're welcome. Wish my reply could have offered some solutions!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 9, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"

How to handle odd numbers of players at our club gatherings?

On Saturday, March 9, 2024 at 04:07:30 PM EST, Shea W wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I belong to a club that hosts American mah-jongg play on Saturday mornings. Our goal is all tables of four, but sometimes the numbers are odd. The organizer will set up a 3-person table and Siamese table over having someone sit out as a floater. However, some people have been critical of this approach when they rotate and go from a four-person game to a 3- or 2-person table. The group does not want to have a 5th person as a “bettor.” Do you have any recommendations on how to manage this situation?

囧 I wish I had a magic solution for you, Shea. But the problem is people who are never satisfied with a reasonable solution to an unfixable problem. If the group doesn't want a bettor, then the 5th player doesn't have to bet. There are always selfish players who want their own play experience at maximum enjoyment, even it it's at the expense of someone else. They always want the full 4-player experience all the time, but dangit, that's just not always possible in a club setting.
Personally, I'm not enough of a warm-and-fuzzy people-person to be able to mollify those people. I'd get impatient and frustrated at their insistence that they never have to change seats or move to another table with fewer players or (horrors!) sit out a round, and I'd want to give the thankless job of organizer to some other poor sucker.
For what it's worth, I discussed table rotation in FAQ 27 and in FAQ 21. See if any ideas in there might be worth discussing with your club. But if it means anything, I think the idea of 3-player and Siamese tables are reasonable.
Have you ever gotten all the players to sit and discuss the problem and arrive at a group consensus on this intractable problem? Getting them to agree and set rules for themselves may help. "This is what we all agreed to, now quitcher bitchin'!"
But I know that would also be a challenge... [sigh!]
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 9, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Replacing flower tiles, part 2

On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 07:26:11 PM EST, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Patricia P
Hello Thomas Sloper,
Donation Received
This email confirms that you have received a donation of $25.00 USD from Patricia P.
Donation Details
Total amount: $25.00 USD
Currency: U.S. Dollars
Quantity: 1
Purpose: Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
Contributor: Patricia P
Message: Thank you!
PayPal

You're welcome and thank YOU, Patricia!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 6, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"

Replacing flower tiles after the deal (Chinese mah-jongg)

On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 03:44:41 PM EST, Patricia P wrote:
Flower wall replacements - Chinese Mahjong
After the deal - the dealer has a flower and replaces it from the flower wall. Question: should the dealer look at her replacement before continuing to other players and their flowers ( in case it is another flower)?
Two of our players are arguing about this. Thank you so much for your help!

Yes, Patricia. The flower replacement procedure following the deal is described in my book on pages 132-133. I have played in China, and I guarantee that it's correct for the dealer to continue replacing flowers until they are completely finished, before gesturing to South to proceed. Then South does the same: replaces any flowers they hold or pick, then gestures to West, and so on. It sometimes happens that a player picks a flower and has to replace that immediately before gesturing to the next player. Players wait with good humor while this process plays out. There is verbalization during this process. The Chinese say "hwar" or "hwa" ("flower") each time a replacement tile is taken. Sometimes, as you said, another flower is picked, and sometimes another after that. "Hwar, hwar, hwar..." A group chuckle can be heard when a succession of flowers sprouts up like that. When a player has no flowers, they say "mei yo" (sounds like "mayo") so the next player can say whether or not they have flowers. Of course, you folks can say "flower" instead of "hwar," and "nope" or "nuttin', honey," instead of "mei yo."

I have to wonder what process your opposing-view player imagines? Dealer replaces one flower, then South says "mei yo," then West replaces one flower, then North says "mei yo," and then East replaces a second flower, then go around the table yet again?? The Chinese way just makes more sense.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 6, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Do you think this set, part 3

On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 12:09:54 PM EST, Sarita N wrote:
I think it’s missing tiles
I haven’t a clue what P stands for but I see only 4 flowers. How old could this set be? It looks incomplete to me. It belonged to my step mother who today would be over 103. I’m thinking it’s from the 40’s. I don’t know what I could do with these tiles. Any suggestions?
Sarita
Download all attachments as a zip file IMG_2553 .jpg 164.3kB IMG_2554 .jpg 240.9kB IMG_2555 .jpg 210.3kB IMG_2556 .jpg 209.8kB

Yes, Sarita, the set is incomplete. It cannot be used to play American-style mah-jongg. It can be used to play Chinese mah-jongg, but without flowers. It's pretty worthless as is. The only people who might want it are collectors who have similar sets, to use for its parts. If you enjoy long and slow torture, you could try to obtain replacement tiles.
Sarita, if you have further questions, I recommend you take a look at some of the articles in FAQ 7. You can learn about mah-jongg sets, what they're made of, what mystery tiles they can contain, and lots more.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 3, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Do you think this set is from the 50’s, part 2
On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 09:06:58 AM EST, Sarita N wrote:
Hope this better helps to identify the age of this set. Thank you for your help. The racks I assume are a marble plastic . I thought they were so different from others I’ve seen. For the age of this set I think it’s in decent condition. Your thoughts.
Sarita
Sent from my iPhone
Download all attachments as a zip file IMG_2539 .jpg 210.3kB IMG_2540 .jpg 245.3kB IMG_2541 .jpg 234.6kB IMG_2542 .jpg 247kB IMG_2543 .jpg 241.4kB IMG_2544 .jpg 215.1kB IMG_2545 .jpg 247kB IMG_2546 .jpg 228.5kB IMG_2547 .jpg 209.9kB IMG_2549 .jpg 209.2kB IMG_2550 .jpg 114.9kB IMG_2551 .jpg 167.2kB IMG_2552 .jpg 229.6kB

I only needed this one photo for the age question, Sarita. At 640x480 pixels, it's the second-smallest common size of digital photo. I needed to zoom in on it to count the flowers/seasons/jokers. It appears that the set came with 28 flowers/seasons. As you can see by the chart in column 509, the National Mah Jongg League required 24 flowers from 1950 to 1955. They never required more than 24, so apparently this set's American manufacturer was basing its inclusion of 28 flowers on the possibility that the League would again increase the flower count. So the answer is yes, surely the set is from the 1950s.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 3, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Do you think this set is from the 50’s? I wonder what material the tiles are made of.

On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 02:41:50 AM EST, Sarita N wrote:
Mah Jongg age?
This set belongs to a 90 yr old lady who said she played back in the 60’s. Do you think this set is from the 50’s?
The tiles have a slight pale green tint to them. I wonder what the actual material the tiles are made of. Any info would be greatly appreciated. I put Joker stickers on 8 of the extra seasons tiles so that she could play American Mah Jongg
Sent from my iPhone
Download all attachments as a zip file IMG_2533 .jpg 106.4kB IMG_2534 .jpg 106.7kB IMG_2535 .jpg 108kB IMG_2537 .jpg 113.9kB

With a view of exactly how many tiles there are, especially how many flowers and jokers, I can make a guess as to an American-style set's date of manufacture based on how many flowers and jokers the National Mah Jongg League required for playing NMJL rules in years past. I made a chart in column 509, and I shared that chart below, in the post titled "What's the history of jokers and flowers?" in response to Judy H on August 17. The only thing I can tell you is that, since you had to sticker 8 extra seasons/flowers, the set was probably made before 1960. And since there were at least 8 extras, the set was probably made after 1946. The set's date of manufacture could be narrowed down if it was known how many flowers the set originally came with.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 3, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Looking for a database, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, March 1, 2024 at 04:58:12 PM EST, Wesley M wrote:
Thanks for your speedy reply, and thanks for collecting all this content. It certainly helped me get into the game after numerous false starts.

You're welcome, Wesley!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom

Looking for a database of past NMJL cards

On Friday, March 1, 2024 at 02:47:52 PM EST, Wesley M wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Do you know of any database of prior mah-jongg cards? I haven’t been able to find any such record, and it seems a shame for that knowledge to be lost over the years. I know the NMJL takes copyright seriously — I’m only looking for cards that are no longer in play to see trends over time and understand the history.
Thanks!
Wesley May

There is no such database, Wesley. What we collectors do is laboriously, year after year, scour eBay and other auction sites waiting for old cards to come up for sale.
That said, I had an exchange with Judy H on August 17, 2023 (below) about trends over time gleaned from my own collection of past cards (which definitely has gaps!). You can scroll down to the post titled "What's the history of jokers and flowers?" To a future reader: if that post has fallen off the bottom of the board, just click the left-pointing hand (very bottom of this board) to go back in time and find the post.
So, Wesley, if the trends and history you're interested in is the evolution of NMJL rules, I think my August 17 reply to Judy H should be of some help to you!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 1, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Need someone to teach my group Chinese mah-jongg next week

On Friday, March 1, 2024 at 03:49:05 PM EST, Christine <christine.berberiangmail.com> wrote:
Looking for Chinese tile mahjong instructor
Hello,
I’m hosting a group of women on March 7 and looking for Someone to teach us the Chinese tile mahjong version. I hope you can help or if you know anyone who can.
Thank you,
Christine

Hi, Christine! I have a list of instructors in FAQ 4a. They're listed by geographical location. Your query is also posted in the Find Players/Teachers bulletin board - maybe a teacher will see your query and contact you... maybe. But you didn't mention what city, state, zip code, or country you're in...
Good luck!

Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
March 1, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

This happened in a tournament...

On Thursday, February 29, 2024 at 01:25:31 PM EST, Joanne M wrote:
Mah jongg Tile on the floor
During our mah jongg tournament, as players played at two nearby tables, a 7 Dot tile was noticed on the floor. We did not know whose table it came from, and when questioned about it during play, each person claimed that the tile was not from their table. Play continued, and then one person from each of those two tables called mah jongg. ( at different times)
But a person from one of these tables said that it was not a valid mah jongg since there was a tile on the floor. No one knew at what point the 7 Dot tile landed on the floor, since it was only discovered there (by me) until mid game at each table. So is the disputed mahjongg valid or not?
The judges ruled that the mah jongg at that table was still valid because no one claimed it was from their table when they were asked about it. We learned later that the 7 Dot tile was from that disputed mah jongg table.
I LOVE your site! It has helped me many times. Perhaps your answer will help me again. Thank you, Tom.
Joanne M

The judges ruled correctly, Joanne. The time to call a game invalid is upon discovery of the problem, not after the [possibly-ruined] game is played through to the end. The players at both tables chose to continue playing - thereby validating the wins.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Leap Year Day, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

How old is it and what's it made of

On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 05:24:08 PM EST, Sierra N wrote:
Mah-Jongg Inquiry
Hello there! To start I just wanted to say what an amazing website you’ve created and put so much time and energy into! I’m new to the world of Mah-Jongg but your site was an amazing source of information and answered questions I didn’t even know I had. I found a set at a thrift store that I couldn’t live without and am hoping you can help me identify how old it is and the materials it’s made of.
My set includes 144 playing tiles and 4 blank extra tiles. It has 88 point sticks (x36 single, x35 8 dots, x5 8 dots that have been marked with an additional dot using a marker, x8 5 dots, and x4 with 9 dots) and 4 very small dice with a large red dot marking #1. It has a red velvet fabric wrapped case and trays for each suite of tiles the counting sticks and dice. It looks like the back of all the tiles could be bamboo and the tiles themselves appear to glow green under UV blacklight (picture attached of this). The 1 of bamboo is a peacock and the set has season and flower tiles. The manual suggests this set is meant to be played as the four winds version and goes into very detailed rules and different scenarios you may encounter while playing. The manual is in English, but I felt like I was reading another language lol.
I would say this set is in nearly perfect condition. Other than the 8 counting sticks that were intentionally marked it has clearly been well looked after. The instruction manual looks brand new and the case has some wear on the outside corners but inside is in very good condition.
My best guess is that the tiles are bone based on how they look under UV light and that I can’t identify any patterns that ivory tiles would contain. When they are all in the case it has a pretty good weight to it.
I cannot find any other sets online that are manufactured by the same company as this one and therefore am unable to find anything about when it could’ve been produced. Which is exactly what led me to you!
Height: 5/8 inch total but the white part is exactly 1/2 inch
Width: 3/4 inch
Length: 1 inch
This set consists of the complete suits of dots, bamboo, craks, winds, x8 flowers, dragons and x4 blank tiles.
(see above)
The case that the set came in is like a briefcase. It has red velvet fabric on the outside and is made of wood. Inside the case are cardboard trays wrapped in similar fabric as the case. On the outside of the case there are two metal folding locks and a plastic handle.
The container has some damage on the outside corners where the fabric has begun to separate a bit but inside the case is clean and overall is in good condition.
It came with an extremely detailed manual on how to play “Mah-Jongg Chinese game of Four Winds” that is in excellent condition.
The craks appear to be more modern in style.
This set does not have any jokers as far as I can tell.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 28, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Where can I find out the rules and penalties for certain actions?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 11:04:53 AM EST, stephanie k wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Where can I find out the rules and penalties for certain actions? For example, touching a rack. I’ll but changing your mind and wanting to call a tile. I know that’s not allowed because once you touch it, it’s yours. Another example, if you throw a tile and miss call it what are the repercussions? I’m looking for scenarios and situations and the explanation on how they are dealt with.
Thank you so much !
From Stephanie....Sent from my iPhone??

Hi, Stephanie! You wrote:

SK: Where can I find out the rules and penalties for certain actions?
TS: There is an official rulebook published by the National Mah Jongg League, it's called Mah Jongg Made Easy ("MJME"). And I wrote a book that describes the official rules, too. It's called The Red Dragon & The West Wind ("RDWW"). There are other books, too. They're listed in FAQ 3.
If you would rather find answers online, my FAQ 19 answers the most frequently asked questions about NMJL rules.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
2/22/2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

The unwritten rule that you should have 8 tiles towards a hand

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 04:21:50 AM EST, Mark C wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Hi with regard to “special” or “limit” hands I have seen somewhere that the unwritten rule is that you need 8 or your initial 13 tiles to be in place in order to make it worth going for one of these even if they are still likely to fail. Any thoughts on this ? (British rules)
Mark C

Hi, Mark.
Just to be clear, rules are completely different from strategy principles. And etiquette is a third completely different set of guidelines. The British game has rulebooks that spell out the rules. It's also likely that the rulebooks mention some but not all strategy and etiquette principles. In fact, many of the rules, strategies, and etiquette guidelines in the British game are also applicable to other variants.

This concept you mentioned, having 8 tiles towards a particular hand, is a strategy principle, not a rule. And it has a counterpart in American and Japanese mah-jongg (two of my favorite variants). Some people say you should have 7 tiles towards a hand before attempting that hand. Some say 8. Strategies are for the individual player to work out for themselves over time, trying them, to varying degrees of success. If I have 7 tiles towards a special hand in my initial deal, I'd probably go for it, at least starting out, but I'd keep my options open for a regular hand. If I have 8 tiles towards a special hand, I'd definitely want to go for it. And I'd probably still keep my options open for as long as practical.

If you're interested in more strategy principles, check out FAQ 8.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
2/22/24
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Why are the S&P hands marked C, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 10:10:23 PM EST, Donna D wrote:
Tom,
Thanks for the fast response.
Donna
Sent from my iPad

You're welcome, Donna! Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom

Why are the S&P hands marked C?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 07:09:36 PM EST, Donna D wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
You cannot draw a tile to complete any part of any of the hands in Singles and Pairs - why are those hands still designated as Concealed?
D D
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Donna! Those hands are the very meaning of Concealed! The entire hand is concealed on the sloping front of the rack until it's exposed all at once. In the case of the S&P hands, the hand can't be exposed until then anyway. If that isn't concealment, I don't know what is.
There are also hands on the card (often at the bottom of a family of hands) that are "arbitrarily" marked Concealed, intentionally by the card designers, often to force the hand to not be ridiculously easy (like all 4-pung hands). Those ex-S&P hands aren't Concealed by definition but rather by design (they're Concealed only because the card says so).
I usually don't try to justify rules I didn't make. But I can see another reason why the C designation makes sense: Given that the S&P hands have to be marked either X or C, you couldn't mark them X, since it's not possible to make exposures. Nothing can be exposed in an S&P hand, so by definition, it's a Concealed hand.
So what do you think? Make sense?
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 21, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Question about the 2023 NMJL card, part 26

On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 04:02:28 PM EST, Carol P wrote:
111 2222 111 2222
Greetings,
under consecutive run
this pattern says any 2 suits - clear
any 2 consec nos - question
doesn't each set have to matching nos ?
example : can 444 5555 with 222 3333 be a mah jongg?
thank you
Carol

You are correct, Carol. If the card shows 111 2222 111 2222 (as it does in Consec. Run #6 on the 2023 card), then the two pungs must be the same number but two different suits, and the two kongs must be the consecutive number after the pungs, in the same two suits.
But the example you gave, 444 5555 222 3333, is a different legal hand, Consec. Run #2 (since the 4s and 5s follow consecutively after the 2s and 3s). You can't claim Consec Run #6 if you make Consec. Run #2.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 21, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

P.S. I've now added this hand to FAQ 16.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 21, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Banned during the Cultural Revolution, part 2

Re: question re "original" Chinese rules of play
On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 08:10:26 AM EST, Gregg Swain wrote:
Dear Tom
Thank you so much for all of this information. I’m delighted you’ve added this question and answer to your site.
All best
Gregg
PS: All those calculations original to the game took away from the number of games that could be played. Hurrah for simplicity!
Sent from my iPhone

May the tiles be with you, Gregg!

Shouldn't I have won?

On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 08:21:53 PM EST, Robin P wrote:
Mahj ?
Hi.
Player across from me plays a 2crack. I say what did u say? The player to my left proceeds to scoops up her next tile from the wall and discards it…..JUST as i say again, Susie, what did u say?
Susie says OH 2 crack.
I say mahjong.
Player to my left goes u can’t take that i already drew and discarded. I said I asked her twice what she said.
Player to my left says no u have to say wait a minute or hold up.
I know the rules on when ur turn starts and ends etc. I think in this situation I had mahjong.
What do you think?
Thanks ?????
Good health and peace to you??Robin P

Hi, Robin!
Sorry that your emojis didn't survive the conversion from email to web.
The player at your left was correct. You should have spoken more forcefully when you could not hear the name of the discard. Going forward, I recommend that you keep an eye on what the other players are doing at all times. If it ever happens again that you miss your mahj tile, it's recommended that you not say or do anything that clues the other players as to what you need.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 21, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Banned during the Cultural Revolution

On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 10:52:01 AM EST, Gregg Swain wrote:
question re "original" Chinese rules of play
Hi Tom
When I was giving a talk at a library the other day, someone asked if the "style of play" banned during the Cultural Revolution was played anywhere these days. I didn't see the answer to this in your book.
Hoping all is well.
Best
Gregg

Hi, Gregg! Nice to hear from you.
I checked FAQ 11-H to see if the Cultural Revolution was mentioned there, with hopes of finding out when that was. My mah-jongg timeline didn't say (it just said "China's Cultural Revolution briefly spilled into Hong Kong with street riots." Wikipedia says the Cultural Revolution started in 1966. So I'll add that to FAQ 11-H.
I'm pretty sure Chinese Classical had already splintered into numerous regional variants by 1966. Chairman Mao didn't outlaw just one variant. He outlawed all gambling, and I'm sure mah-jongg players lived in fear of being tattled upon if they even played solitaire games as long as the Chairman ruled the Middle Kingdom.
The variant that held sway in the 1920s is referred to today as "Chinese Classical," but it is not "the original." The rules went through an evolution from the 1860s and leading up to the 1920s. FAQ 11-F discusses the "original" rules, based on historical discussions on the old rec.games.mahjong newsgroup, and writings found by historian Michael Stanwick and others.
Certainly, Cantonese rules had evolved by the 1960s, and surely there must have been other regional variants extant at the time. I imagine that whatever variants were played before Chairman Mao's edict ARE (yes) still played today in China. The Chinese weren't big on writing books about mah-jongg - some of the earliest ones are listed in FAQ 11-D.
The asker of the question at your library talk might be wondering if 1920s style is still played in China today. My best guess is "probably not," since it has a tedious scoring system in which all players tally their scores and pay one another after each hand. A lotta math! I do hear occasionally from Western players of Chinese Classical, who use books from the twenties.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 20, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Frequently Asked Question 19-BU

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 09:23:28 AM EST, Rob O wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Why is April the month that the National Mah Jongg League changes the card? What not at the start of the calendar year?
Rob

Please see Frequently Asked Question 19-BU, Rob.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 19, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Is this a legal play, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 10:19:13 PM EST, Judy H wrote:
Thank you, I will check it out.

Is this a legal play?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 10:01:02 PM EST, Judy H wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Player A is going for a concealed hand. Player A has an 8 bam in her hand. She needs an 8 crak and a joker for Mah Jongg.
Player B has three 8 bams with a joker exposed.
Player C discards an 8 crak.
Player A calls the 8 crak for Mah Jongg, places it with two other 8 craks on the rack, and exchanges the 8 bam for the exposed joker, exposing her entire concealed hand.
She is called dead because it was a concealed hand and the called tile did not complete the Mah Jongg, even though she exchanged the 8 bam for the joker in the same turn.
Is the hand dead?
Thanks in advance!
Judy H

Hi, Judy! The hand is dead. The crucial bit of information was "it was a concealed hand." She made an exposure before completing the hand, and that is illegal. You can't first make an exposure and then claim mahj on a Concealed hand.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 12, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

A tile fell off the wall, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 03:54:37 PM EST, Barbara W wrote:
Thank you!!
Sent from my iPhone

You're welcome, Barbara!

A tile fell off the wall and she put it in her hand

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, February 10, 2024 at 11:44:34 AM EST, Barbara W wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Here’s a new one A tile accidentally falls from the middle of the wall The player thought it fell from her hand. She picks it up and puts it in her hand Now she has 14 tiles. (It’s not her turn) Is her hand dead? What happens to the wall with a missing tile in the middle? Player is not sure which tile she put in. Sent from my iPhone

Hi, Barbara!
That's pretty funny. This illustrates why the League can't foresee every possible weird thing that can happen when you have four fallible humans at a table.
Yes, her hand is dead. In addition to making her hand illegal, she also created a quandary at the table by not being able to accurately repair the wall (if she could have just put it back, then all would have been well). The game will just have to play through that wall with the gap in it.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 10, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

What if the player who took the tile for mah-jongg turns out to have been in error, and now she's dead? Does the other claimant get to take the tile now?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 09:53:03 PM EST, Kathy S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
If a person calls a tile for mahjong, displays their tiles only to realize she played the hand wrong and is therefore dead, can another player (who did actually say CALL) when the tile was thrown) call that tile from a now dead hand? Most of us said no, dead is dead but one player argued so we are going to you!!
Thank you
Kathy S
Happily playing in NJ
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Kathy! If the other player can use the tile to declare mah-jongg, she can take the tile and win. But if she wants it just to make an exposure, then she's out of luck. See FAQ 19-H4.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you!
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 8, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

How many points do I get, part 2

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 06:15:36 PM EST, JooFang J wrote:
Re: Tally up one's scores - A set (meld) of one Dragon
Hello Tom,
I am not getting the answer I need, its my bad, its probably my use of the word "expose hand" in my inquiry, so let me try again.
I am not referring to Pung from a discarded tile - I am referring to a self drawn Pung in my concealed hand.
1) In Malaysian Mahjong, if I am the non-winning player, I have a set of one of these Dragon tiles in my CONCEALED hand ....so to tally up my scores (to pay the other non-winning players), am I allowed to include as "points" as well as fann (double).
2) As a non winning player - I assume is same for the Winds (Tung Nam Sai Pak) - if its the Tung round and I am Seat#4 (Pak) and I have both sets of Tung and Pak (self drawn) in my concealed hand, am I allowed to include them (points and doubles) when I tally up my scores?
Thanks
-cindy

囧 Hi, Cindy!
I knew you were asking about a concealed pung of dragons. It's in the hand, so it's concealed. I understood that.
1. As I said before, I only know what Vincent Cheah told me. He did not say a concealed pung counts as more than an exposed pung. He only said it was worth 1 fan. Then he also said 1 fan was 20 points. He never said a fan actually doubles the score. If it does, maybe 10 points is doubled to get 20 points. Maybe 20 points should be doubled to 40. You need to figure out your scoring system yourself, since Vincent's detailing doesn't seem to jibe with what you remember.
2. Since all players count their scores and compare them for the paying-up tally, yes, you score points for your sets, whether concealed or exposed. See what Vincent said. You get 1 fan for East (Tung) and 1 fan for Own Wind (Pak). You should also get 1 fan for North (Pak). (In many mah-jongg scoring systems, fan are additive like that - you can have your cake, AND you can eat it, too! Double-dipping is a real permissible thing in the world of mah-jongg.) That's 3 fan for your two wind pungs, 1 fan for your red dragon pung. 4 fan = 80 points, according to Vincent's stated scoring system. He doesn't mention doubling.
Vincent told me table rules may vary among Malaysian players. He says before beginning play, make sure you know the fan counts at the table (see FAQ 14 for more about table rules). This means you can set the scoring system the way you want. You'll just need to adapt to others' scoring when you play at their table, and you have to tell newcomers how your scoring works. It's all good.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 8, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

How many points do I get for a concealed pung of dragons in Malaysian mah-jongg?

On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 04:13:07 PM EST, JooFang J wrote:
Tally up one's scores - A set (meld) of one Dragon
I play Malaysian Mahjong (assume with its own house rules its different from HK version) and I am trying to re-fresh my knowledge to teach my friends.
If I am one of the non-winning player and I have a set of 3 of example a Red Dragon (concealed). When its time to tally up my scores, do I move my set of complete Red Dragon (3 tiles) out to "expose" and this will give me a "double"? How points will I get?
Thanks
-cindy

囧 Hi, Cindy! I've not played Malaysian rules myself. All I know about Malaysian scoring is what Vincent Cheah emailed me twenty years ago ( https://sloperama.com/mahjongg/malaysian.html). He wrote that a pong (pung) of dragons is worth 1 fan. And later in the page he says 1 fan is worth 20 points. Vincent never said a concealed pung of dragons is worth more than an exposed pung of dragons. He did make a distinction about concealed vs. exposed kongs (gongs) - but kongs are rarer than pungs, and are scored instantly during play, he indicated.

So in my opinion, you should take his "1 fan = 20 points" concept, and see how that fits into the way you remember playing.

When you are tallying up your points, you say "I have a concealed pung of dragons," while you show everyone your concealed pung. You don't ruin the "concealment" when you reveal what tiles you were holding. You score for it being concealed. It's necessary to reveal your tiles to prove your claim for points.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 8, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Why is THAT player punished but not the other?

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 11:59:30 AM EST, Michael R wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Greetings Mr. Sloper
This question comes from your article American Mah-Jongg FAQ’s, under ‘JOKERS’, question # M4. You give a source as the NMJL p.20, rule 14…. “An incorrect exposure makes the player’s hand dead.
In the January, 2024 newsletter of the NMJL, question #10, it is stated that if the mistake is made before a discard is made, no penalty is incurred.
Once the redeemer has discarded and the incorrect tile remains atop the rack, you state the “player who has the incorrect exposure atop their rack is dead.”
My question: it seems that the player whose joker was taken and then that player is called dead is being inappropriately punished. Are they being punished for having an incorrect meld on their rack following the exchange?
Thanking you in advance for clarification,
Regards
Michael R

Hi, Michael! I understand why you might think that the holder of the illegal/incorrect exposure is inappropriately punished. But consider: what was the holder's part of that move? Let me paint a picture:
1. Player A has a joker exposure atop the rack. Let's say it's 1B. Player B wants to get that joker, and on his turn he hands a tile to Player A, saying "I'd like that joker, please." Player A is reluctant to look up from her card (much less hand over the joker) but she takes the tile and hands over the joker and goes back to studying her card. Player B discards, sealing Player A's fate. Player A has 1Bs and a Flower atop the rack. It's an incorrect exposure, and she played a part in the making of it.

Now let me paint a different picture:
2. Same setup as before. Player B hands a tile to Player A, asking for the joker. Player A takes the tile from Player B and looks at it. She says, "Hey, this isn't a one bam." No problem for Player A!

I like to get carried away with these hypotheticals...
3. Same setup as before. Player B takes a tile from his rack and puts it on Player A's rack, taking a joker and leaving a Flower among the 1Bs. Player A is a 2nd Amendment advocate, and she lives in a Stand Your Ground state. She pulls out her revolver and shoots Player B dead on the spot. "Nobody touches my rack," she says, as she blows the smoke out of the end of the barrel.

The real point is that the recipient of the natural tile is responsible for what's atop their own rack. And nobody should ever put anything on (or take something from) someone else's rack.

As for why the exchanger/redeemer is not punished, I can't say. For further reading, you might want to scroll down to the December 30 post from Kathie W.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Grundsaudaag, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

When can I chow down?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, February 1, 2024 at 12:44:19 AM EST, Frances S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: can someone pick up a discarded tile to complete a chow when it’s not their turn? Thank you
Sent from Mail for Windows

Hi, Frances! The answer is no. As I wrote in FAQ 20-B1, you can take a discard to make a chow only when it is thrown by the player at your left. That means it's your turn, and you can start your turn by taking the discard. I don't think I mentioned in FAQ 20 the reason why: because the game would be too easy, not to mention too chaotic, if anybody could interrupt the flow to chow willy-nilly.
FAQ 20 explains the most commonly misunderstood rules of Asian forms of Mah-Jongg. You might want to bookmark it.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 1, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Re: The 2023 NMJL card, part 25

Re: ? on 2023 card
On Thursday, February 1, 2024 at 05:55:55 AM EST, Carol P wrote:
Thank you for answering my questions.

You're welcome, Carol.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
February 1, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 25

On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 11:48:39 AM EST, Carol P wrote:
? on 2023 card
under consecutive run
FF 1111 2222 3333 OR ...
DOES NOT SAY ANY 3 CONSECUTIVE NOS NOR THESE NOS ONLY
how to interpret ?
THANK YOU

Hi, Carol!
No need to shout! (^_^) Your email got waylaid to my spam folder for an unknown reason, but I found it before heading off to bed.
You're asking about Consecutive Run #5. As I wrote in FAQ 16, the hand can be any 3 consecutive numbers. The only hand in Consecutive Runs that has to be specific numbers is the top one. You can see plainly that there wasn't enough space to write any more in the parenthetical on that line.

FAQ 16 answers the most frequently asked questions about the 2023 NMJL card. You might want to bookmark it!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you, Carol!
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 31, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Can we use dragons as wild?

On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 05:43:31 PM EST, Barbara S wrote:
Dragons
We’re learning the Chinese version…..kinda/sorta, I think! We were told dragons are wild in their set, but nothing I read confirms that. Are they only for melding their own pairs, Pungs and Kongs, or can we use them as wild? There are no other wild cards in the Chinese version.
So many different rules!
Thanks,
Barb
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

囧 Hi, Barb! When you emailed me on Saturday (below), and said you had my book, and asked about "wildcards," I assumed you were learning American rules (the mah-jongg variant described in the first half of my book), so I gave you the American answer to your question.
Wildcards are not used in Majiang Competiton Rules (the Chinese version described in the second half of my book).
It sounds like you have a friend who plays some Chinese variant, using dragons as wildcards as a table rule. In that case, much of what I wrote in my book may not gibe with how your friend plays. My book describes the same basic play procedure, but the scoring differs from version to version (there are numerous regional Chinese variants, each with different scoring).
FAQ 2-B describes all the variants known to me. You might want to show that to your friend so you can find out which variant they play.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 29, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Is there a limit to how many jokers I can use in a set?

On Saturday, January 27, 2024 at 11:24:59 PM EST, Barbara S wrote:
Wild card question
I have your book, but couldn’t find the answer to this question:
In a Pung or Kong, can there be two wildcards (2 jokers OR 2 dragons), or is only one wildcard permitted? Thank you!
Barb S
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

Hi, Barb! Always nice to hear from someone with my book! See rule 83 at the bottom of page 57. "When using jokers to build a set concealed in the hand, the player may fill the set with as many jokers as she wishes. There is no requirement that the player must have any minimum number of natural tiles to complete a set."
I should add to the errata one more sentence about making exposures with multiple jokers: "An exposed set must include at least one natural tile (the called discard that initiated the exposure), since a discarded joker may never be claimed. "
(The term "natural" is defined in the glossary on page 239. A "natural" tile is sometimes also called a "symbol tile.")
So that answers where in the book you can find the answer to your question. Here on my website, you'll find that answer in FAQ 19-L.
Play safe out there, Barb! And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 28, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Re the legalities of "finessing" and "slamming"

On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 03:52:19 PM EST, Sally C wrote:
Finesse Move
Is the finesse move a legal move only in tournaments according to the National MahJongg League?
Is "slamming" a legal move?

Hi, Sally!
Yes, "finessing" is legal. It says so right in the rulebook. Page 23, rule 7.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 24, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

If a discard has been named but not yet touched to the table...?

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 06:03:11 AM EST, Service Mails wrote:
mah jongg question
If a tile being discarded has been named but not touched the board, can it be used instead to replace a joker on someone else rack of the same name ? Thank you,Frankie

Hi, Frankie! The discard is "DOWN" (and cannot be un-discarded) if the tile has been EITHER named OR touched to the table, whichever happens first. See FAQ 19-A.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 22, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Have you published any updates to “The Red Dragon & The West Wind”?

On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 04:12:11 AM EST, Kelly G wrote:
Your book updates d
Have you published any updates to “The Red Dragon snd The West Wind”?
Sent from my iPhone

Yes, Kelly, thanks for asking! At the bottom of https://sloperama.com/mjfaq/rdww.html there is a PDF file of errata for the book. The file not only contains corrections, but also includes updates based on rule changes that have occurred since the book's publication. It was last updated February 3, 2023, and now it needs a couple more additions, since the National Mah Jongg League has updated their rulebook, Mah Jongg Made Easy. You can download the errata file now, but do check back in a few weeks for the updated version. You can just click the link to read in your browser, or right-click and "Save As" (Firefox/Chrome users: "save link as" - IE/Edge users: "save target as") to download the file to your computer.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 19, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Is this a legal play?

On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 06:26:16 PM EST, Carol C wrote:
Question regarding discarded tile missed exchange
Thank you so much for helping our relatively new Mahjong group w. a situation:
3 players at table: Player #1 discards 5 Bam and misses her opportunity to exchange as she realizes too late that Player #3 had Laid-up 3 - #5 Bams with a joker to make exposure of Qnty 4 - #5 Bams. Player # 3 now calls for the discarded 5 Bam/exchanges it for the joker on her exposed tiles and then calls Maj as she is able to complete her final play by using this now just-acquired joker. Is this a "Legal Play" that counts as a winning Maj? Hope I explained clearly.
Many thanks for your insight Carol

Hi, Carol!
Please allow me to rephrase what you told me...

1. Player 1 discards a redeemable 5B.
2. Player 3 calls for the 5B and uses it to redeem a joker....

At the top of the FAQ, you see that "JOKERS" is the third category of questions and answers. Click that and you see a list of the most frequently asked questions about jokers. Your question (this time) is "Can I claim a discarded redeemable tile? (Somebody discarded it and I want to use it to redeem a joker)." You just click that and there's your answer.
In case you're interested, the next question that might come to mind is, "can somebody win by redeeming a joker? Is that legal?" The closest thing to that question in FAQ 19's "Jokers" section is "What's my score if I win by redeeming a joker?" - FAQ 19-AN, which question inherently implies that winning by redemption is, indeed, legal.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 18, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

What if 2 players go dead in a 3-player game, part 2

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Very generous donation, Susan! Thank you!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 18, 2024

Does it have great value?

On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 07:18:22 PM EST, M E wrote:
Mah-jongg set
After she passed away, I found my mother's mah-jongg set and wondered whether it had great value. They had given us ivory pieces [in the family from long before the ban] and, at first, wondered if these were vintage. However, after reading your information and directions, I organized the tiles and looked at ebay as you suggested. The set is clearly an American Mah-Jongg set with plastic tiles [whatever process]. I have attached a picture of the complete set and here are details you require:
The basic 136-tile set [dots, bams craks, winds, dragons] is complete and there are 20 flowers [8 of them are seasons] plus 10 jokers and 2 blanks. Total is 168 tiles, all in excellent condition [no obvious defects to my untrained eyes];
The tiles are 13/16 in. by 7/8 in. by 7/16 in
Hard case [vinyl covered] with 5 plastic racks; a pair of ordinary dice.
I welcome your evaluation, but after reading your FAQs and looking at ebay as you suggested, I'm not sure that this set has great value. After I started the process of organizing the set, reading your information and preparing to contact you, my daughter informed me that she is starting to learn the game with some new friends and would like her grandmother's set. Still, I'd like to let her know what this is worth, other than just the family connection.
Thank you for your help,
Michael

Hi, Michael. It's a standard American-style mah-jongg set, made in China by an unknown manufacturer. It's worth about $150, maybe $200, if it's in like-new condition. Please give it to your daughter. It would be a nice starter set for her beginner group to use when they come to play at her place. By the way, nice job on the picture.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 17, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

What if 2 players go dead in a 3-player game?

On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 03:12:22 PM EST, Susan Z wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jong question or comment is: When playing with 3 players and two of them reveal they are dead, yes I know we should not call ourselves dead, what happens to the third player? Does the single legal player continue to draw and play alone until she possibly makes Mah-Jong? Or is the game over. If the game is over is the single player paid anything?
I did look but could not find this question.
Thanks for all of your knowledge and sense of humor!
Suzi
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Susan! Two things first, and then I'll tell you the answer.
1. It would be very silly for one player to play alone while others sit there. So let's forget that scenario forever and never may that idea rise again.
2. The rules for a 3-player game are exactly the same as the rules for a 4-player game, once the deal is done and the Charleston skipped.* Once play has begun, the game progresses with the same rules as a 4-player game. It's as if one of the (4) players was declared dead and now only 3 are left playing (except there are more tiles in the wall, since no tiles were dealt to a 4th player). So you don't have to find a special rule for "in a 3-player game...." The rule you're seeking is "what if 3 players go dead in a 4-player game," which is never worded with "... in a 4-player game" on the end. Because then we'd have to take that onto the end of just about every question.

Update, 1/18: I relooked, and found that I didn't need to cite the Mah Jongg In Error rules; the "3 dead" rule is also stated elsewhere in the rulebook. It's unknown why Susan's two players called themselves dead - we know it wasn't mahj in error. If it was wrong tile counts, rule 6(c) on page 17 of MJME2023 states that if 3 players are dead (in a normal 4P game, it should go without saying), the game is "replayed," which is a different thing from the dice moving to the next East for another game. To me, "replay" means East rolls again. If two players call themselves dead because they realize their hands are unwinnable, they both erred significantly (unwinnability is not a justifiable cause of death unless the unwinnability is visible to all players - and of course, it must be another player who issues the death challenge). So whether the dice should move to the next player or not is the only remaining question. Again, that "depends" - on how the 3 players all managed to go dead! Sometimes it's a do-over and sometimes it isn't.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 17, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

* Or not skipped, as many are wont to do...

Corian® mah-jongg tiles, part 3

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 12:15:43 AM EST, Sandra T wrote:
Thanks for answering my question and you can be assured I’m not headed to Western New York any time soon!
I just saw you posted an addendum to your first answer. I’m guessing my friend doesn’t have a set made of Corian after all. She’s definitely not a Crazy Rich Asian! lol
The set must be plastic, but it’s definitely made by a different manufacturer than any other set I’ve ever played with. The sides of the tiles are more squared off—not as rounded and they have a different heft.
Sandra
Sent from my iPhone

You're welcome, Sandra.
Okay, so we're not talking about a crazy expensive material after all. I have some Chinese sets with very squared edges and sharp corners. Squared sides sounds like so-called "Chinese Bakelite." There's no consensus among collectors as to what material "Chinese Bakelite" actually is.
If you're still curious about what your friend's tiles are made of, you could read FAQ 7-C. And you could check the "other excellent sites" listed in FAQ 4-A. But if you want an opinion from me, I would need pictures. Good pictures.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 15, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

Corian® mah-jongg tiles, part 2

囧 In hindsight, dear readers, I should have done some research before replying to Sandra a short while ago (below). A Google search* does, in fact, easily and immediately turn up mah-jongg sets made of Corian®:

As far as I'm concerned, the SEOs and SMMs can knock themselves out shilling these exorbitantly gaudy doodads. ;op
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 14, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

* After posting, I got to thinking, "When Sandra Googled it she didn't find anything. But maybe I can find something, if it's there, if I try Googling it?" - Duh, I slap my forehead. Shoulda Googled it in the first place. - Tom

Corian® mah-jongg tiles

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 12:56:52 PM EST, Sandra T wrote:
Hi Tom,
I apologize in advance if the answer to my question is on your website and I missed it. Assuming it’s not too expensive, I am interested in buying a modern American mah jongg set made out of Corian. A friend of mine was given a mah jongg set when the owner of the set died. We have no idea where the set originally came from, but I like it very much and would like to purchase a similar set. After doing some research on the internet, I have determined my friend’s set may be made of Corian. Do you know where I might find a set made of Corian?
Sandra T

囧 Sorry, Sandra, but I would be surprised if the material used for kitchen countertops is also used for manufacturing mah-jongg tiles. But I could be wrong. I can point you to my lists of vendors in FAQ 4a (short list) and FAQ 4b (long list), if that helps.

Or you might want to contact DuPont de Nemours, Inc.®, the chemical company that invented Corian®. You could ask them if they know of any companies that use Corian®, or any of DuPont®'s other polymers, like Vespel™, neoprene, nylon, Teflon, Mylar, Kapton, Kevlar, Zemdrain, M5 fiber, Nomex, Tyvek®, Sorona, Corfam, or Lycra, for making mah-jongg tiles. According to the Corian® Wikipedia entry (which Wikipedia says is "written like an advertisement"), Corian® is manufactured in only three thicknesses: 6 millimetres (0.24 in), 12 millimetres (0.47 in), and 19 millimetres (0.75 in). The 6mm and 12mm thicknesses are too thin for mah-jongg tiles, so if the material is, in fact, used for mah-jongg tiles, it would have to be the 19mm sheets, and that would still make the tiles non-standard thickness (see the standard tile sizes in FAQ 7a). Most Corian® is manufactured at a DuPont® facility near Buffalo, New York, where they're having very wintry weather currently, if you're thinking of going there to ask in person. I should mention that travel in Western New York State is inadvisable this weekend.

I fear that your internet research may have misled you, most likely due to the shenanigans of SEOs (search engine optimizers) or SMMs (social media marketers). Do you know about SEOs and SMMs? They're scurrilous tricksters who go to inordinate lengths to disguise themselves with fake names, and disguise their paid advertisements to look like genuine conversations in social media (forums, bulletin boards, chat boards, etc.). So I think there's no such thing as Corian® mah-jongg tiles, and that you've possibly been misled by SEOs or SMMs. They're sneaky, and they're everywhere! These tricksters have been around since the 1990s. I remember on America OnLine seeing posts saying something along the lines of "Hey everybody, I wanted to share a great product I just ran across!" Early SMM wasn't as sophisticated then as it is nowadays in the misInformation Age.*

If you do find a vendor of Corian® mah-jongg tiles, or tiles made of any other DuPont de Nemours, Inc.® polymers, please by all means, do share the information with me, and with any SEOs or SMMs you come across in your travels, so that the word can be spread far and wide. (^_^)
Good luck with your search! May the tiles (literally) be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 14, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

* Which makes me think, should we call our current phase of mankind's existence "misinformation" or "disinformation"? Misinformation is just incorrect, either by accident or misunderstanding. Disinformation is intentional false information intended to achieve a predetermined result. - Tom

Where can I find your famous Charleston-stop chart?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 01:14:44 PM EST, Minda M wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I watched a Zoom episode on YouTube where you mentioned a chart which tells when to stop the Charleston. I looked on your bulletin board and was unable to find the chart. Can you tell me where to find it? Thank you.

Well, Minda, I had a hard time finding that myself. I thought to myself, "I ought to find it and put it in FAQ 8.e (the Strategy FAQ)." Then I wondered if maybe I already had. And guess what, I had! Anyway, here it is so you don't have to click anything:

You can right-click that and save it to your computer if you want. Hope it helps!
I should mention that this is not a hard-and-fast or definitive "rule" - you are free to stop the Charleston if you want to, no matter what the above decision flowchart suggests. I myself do not use this thought process; but I think most people would find it a helpful guide when facing a difficult on-the-spot decision. At some tables, "disharmony" could result if you stop the Charleston, no matter that the rules say you have the freedom to stop. Some people begrudge freedom for anyone but themselves....
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 9, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

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Is it a rule you have to rack.

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 11:23:11 AM EST, JoAnn S wrote:
Racking
Does a player have to rack a picked tile from the wall, some players pick a tile, look at it, call it, then discard it with out ever actually racking it. Is it a rule you have to rack.
Thanks
JoAnn

No, JoAnn. As I wrote in FAQ 19-BL: There is no rule that says a player must rack before discarding. The NMJL says it is "best practice" to rack, but it's not a rule. (Source: the 2021 newsletter.)

FAQ 19 link

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 9, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

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Does win on a replacement tile count as self-pick in Chinese Classical rules?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 02:52:50 PM EST, Francis N wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
In traditional Chinese mahjong, if a player picks up a discarded tile to make a kong and then on the same turn goes out with that replacement tile, do they score 2 for going out on a self-drawn tile? In other words, does a replacement tile count as “self-drawn” if it enables you to go out (as well as giving you a double)? Or does the initial pick up from the discard mean no?
Sent from my iPhone

Hi, Francis! Actually, winning on a replacement tile counts a lot more than 2 measly points! Per A.D. Millington in the seminal The Complete Book of Mah-Jongg (1993), "Opening a flower on top of the mountain" (AKA "winning on the roof") doubles the score! Page 64, rule 117 (h).

But it might depend on which author you use as your bible. I checked an older source too. According to Milton C. Work's Mah-Jongg Up-To-Date (1924), it's 2 points for replacing a flower and either 10 points or double score for replacing a 4th kong tile, "depending on which style of game is being played." Note that Work was trying to reconcile the classical game with "the American Code of Laws" (which incorporated both the One Double and the Cleared Hand games, two different rule sets expert players came up with to prevent beginners from winning with cheap easy hands).

Having found competing rulings on your question, I needed to check other sources. I checked two other books: Foster on Mah Jong (R. F. Foster, 1924) and An Advanced System for Playing Mah Jong by Chung Wu (1973), and they both agree with Millington: winning on a loose tile (Wu calls that "Picking a flower on the kang") indeed doubles the score.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 8, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

P.S. Jan. 12: I may have missed the question. No, you don't get 2 points AND double the score. Just double. - Tom

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Can I promote an exposed pung, part 2

On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 12:09:32 PM EST, Elizabeth M wrote:
Re: Question
Thanks Tom!
I'll be sure to donate!
Liz

You're welcome, Liz!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom

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Can I promote an exposed pung to a kong in American mah-jongg?

On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 11:17:00 AM EST, Elizabeth M wrote:
Question
Hello Tom!
I have a question about American Mahjong.
If a player has an exposed pung from the card and they draw the fourth identical tile, are they able to add it to their pung to make a kong (and therefore change what they're collecting?)
Thanks!
Liz

The answer is no, Liz. See FAQ 19-AF. Once you make an exposure and discard, the exposure will remain, as is, for the duration of the hand. You cannot later (after discarding) change a pung to a kong, quint, or sextet. If you want an authoritative source, see MJME2020, page 15.

MJME2020 = Mah Jongg Made Easy (2020 ed.)
A 2023 edition is now available! I've ordered it.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 8, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

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Can you give me an idea of when, part 4

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:08:38 PM EST, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Malayna T
Hello Thomas Sloper,
Donation Received
This email confirms that you have received a donation of $20.00 USD from Malayna T
You can view the transaction details online.
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Contributor: Malayna T
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On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:14:18 PM EST, Malayna wrote:
Re:
Thanks so much, it was very helpful!

Yee-ha! Thanks, Malayna!
Tom

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Can you give me an idea of when it was made, part 3

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 08:09:59 PM EST, Malayna T wrote:
Here are some more pictures. I’ll just paste one at a time so it’s not too big.

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 08:15:40 PM EST, Malayna T wrote:
Mah-jongg set
A few have an ink marks on them.

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 08:33:59 PM EST, Malayna T wrote:
(No Subject)
Last one. Both sides look the same.

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 08:38:47 PM EST, Malayna T wrote:
(No Subject)
This one has a chip out if it. But maybe you can tell what it’s made of.

Well, Malayna, your question is a little tricky. I can't tell you when the tiles themselves were made, but I can tell you approximately when the tiles were packaged in that box: in the late 1990s or early 2000s, most likely. At least, that's the timeframe when I saw a lot of these artificially-aged sets being sold in Los Angeles' Chinatown.

A manufacturer (yes, in China - possibly in Taiwan but probably not) bought up a lot of old sets of tiles and ran them through some sort of aging/dirtying process, and got hold of fancy antique-looking boxes, lined them with paper printed with those patterns and then applied shellack or some other coating for an antique look. The pattern printed inside your box's bottom half (vertical columns, numbered from right to left) is identical to the pattern printed inside the lid of a boxed set of bone and bamboo "playing card tiles" in my collection. So I guess the manufacturer printed the paper to line the boxes with because it looks kind of mah-jonggy.

The front exterior of your box has (I'm guessing) Hindu writing, Sanskrit, on it, and what could be an Indian design on the top (Buddha and two of his disciples). The gaudy box is a dead giveaway of fairly recent Frankensteining. Your set has no dice, no scoring chips, no wind indicator. Just tiles in a box (and no compartments in the box for those extra bits and pieces). That indicates that the box was not originally manufactured to contain an entire complete mah-jongg set: just the tiles - and not so that the tiles could fit attractively. It's customary and proper for tiles to store in 4 rows of 9 in a properly-made mah-jongg case; observe the rattling-around space in the box when all the tiles are in it).

The sets I saw around Y2K were bone-and-bamboo, "aged" in mud or something. Your plastic tiles may have been soaked in yellow dye to improve their looks, or maybe they're actually made of yellow plastic (perhaps Catalin/Bakelite). If you ever accidentally chip one of those tiles, I wonder if you'll find they're white inside.
I took a close look at your 6th photo above:

Your set of tiles includes Singapore "animal flowers" (top right of the left photo above), which indicates the tiles were probably carved in the late 20th century.
In sum: Could be anytime after ~1950 for the tiles, anytime after 1990 for the box. That's the best I can do. Maybe another reader might know more about the writing on the box or the paper lining, but that information isn't likely going to narrow down the set's date of manufacture for us.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 4, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

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Can you give me an idea, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 12:23:24 PM EST, Malayna T wrote:
Thanks so much! I will send more pictures when I get home from work. I bought it from someone in Hong Kong off of Ebay about 15 years ago. They don’t speak English so I just went off the picture they had posted. No paperwork came with the set, but it is in a pretty box.

Okay, Malayna.
Tom

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Can you give me an idea of when it was made?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 10:46:16 PM EST, Malayna T wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I have a mah-jongg set that has orange tiles. No western markings. There isn’t any color. All of the tiles only have black ink. I believe it’s a Chinese set. 144 pieces. Can you give me an idea of when it was made?
Thank you,
Malayna T

Maybe I can, Malayna, if you send me more pictures. I need to see all the tiles, all the extra bits and pieces that came with the set, the case, and what the set looks like when the tiles and other pieces are packed attractively in the case. It looks like an interesting set, but I can't possibly be helpful based on just one photo. Looking forward to seeing more...
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 4, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

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Conflicting claims, two scenarios

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 02:09:49 PM EST, Ann S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
If two people call for a tile, one abit faster than the second one, who has priority? The person next in turn or the fastest call? If it is for Mahjongg, does that take priority over all?
Ann
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Ann! To answer your two questions:
1. MJME2020, p. 20 rule 13.(a) and FAQ 19-H1 and H2: It's not a race to see who speaks first. When two players claim a discard for exposure, the player whose turn would be next in order of play (counterclockwise from discarder) gets the tile. Likewise when two players claim a discard for mah-jongg.

MJME2020 = Mah Jongg Made Easy (2020 ed.)

2. MJME2020, p.20, rule 13.(c) and FAQ 19-I1: When one player claims a discard for exposure, and another claims it for mah-jongg, the player who needs it for mah-jongg takes priority. New, 2020: even if another player has begun to expose tiles, the mahj claim takes priority.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 3, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

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Conflicting claims, one claiming the discard for exposure and one claiming mahj by self-pick... non-simultaneously

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 08:21:00 AM EST, jamesc wrote:
Mah Jongg call timing
Greetings,
This came up the other day:
4 players (A to D) around the table in that order.
Player A needs a 1 dot to Mah Jongg.
Player D discards a 7 crack.
Player B calls the 7 crack for exposure.
This is where it gets tricky.
Once Player D named the tile, Player A lifted the next tile from the wall (a 1 dot) and said Mah Jongg.
There was much discussion about timing.
Player B said she called the 7 crack tile prior to the 1 dot being lifted and before the Mah Jongg words being spoken.
Player A said no he had seen it first before saying Mah Jongg and recognized it as his Mah Jongg tile.
Player C agreed with Player B and Player D remained silent.
We need the rule number or info about this type of situation and how does the timing affect the outcome?
What should have happened in this case?
Thanks for any help on this.
Jim M.

Hi, Jim! As I interpret what you wrote:

1. Player D discards and names a tile.
2. Then, simultaneously, Player B calls the discard for exposure and Player A picks from the wall and SEES his mah-jongg tile.

From what you described, it sounds like Player A spoke AFTER Player B spoke.
If I have interpreted your words correctly, then Player A should have kept his mouth shut. Player B declared a claim for the current live discard, which means Player A can't take his turn. He has to put the tile back on the wall. Secrecy as to what he saw (NOT claiming "mahj") could result in him getting that tile anyway if the next picker discards it.

I know you wanted a "rule number," but there is no rule in the 2020 edition of MJME that covers this exact situation.

Mah Jongg Made Easy, the official rulebook of the NMJL. The 2023 edition is available now!

FAQ 19-CL says the caller gets the tile if a call for a discard is spoken at the exact precise instant that the next-in-turn racks his picked tile from the wall. But your Player B was not racking and was not speaking at that exact precise instant - he was just SEEING the picked tile. FAQ 19-CL is based on an October 25, 2016 letter to Donna E from the NMJL. I suppose the case cited by Donna E in her original query to the League involved a call for exposure and a pick that wasn't for mahj.

Is this a case where "mah-jongg trumps everything" (FAQ 19-DK)? I don't think so, because it seems (from your description) that player A spoke AFTER Player B spoke; that player B only SAW his mahj tile at the moment that player A spoke her claim. Player C, you said, "agreed with Player B" that Player B's verbalization came first.

If the above doesn't satisfy, and you want an official ruling from the League, I recommend you send them your question in a snailmail letter, not by telephone. Then when you get a written reply, you could share a photo of it with me and I can share it here on the board, and in FAQ 19, for future askers of the same question.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 3, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

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Make, material, value, age or anything else, part 2

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 09:18:56 PM EST, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Melanie C
Hello Thomas Sloper,
PayPal
Donation Received
This email confirms that you have received a donation of $25.00 USD from Melanie C
You can view the transaction details online.
Donation Details
Total amount: $25.00 USD
Currency: U.S. Dollars
Quantity: 1
Purpose: Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
Contributor: Melanie C
PayPal

Thank you, Melanie! Happy New Year!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
January 2, 2024
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind"
Donations appreciated

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WANNA SEE MORE MAH-JONGG Q&A?
CLICK HERE to go back in time and read older Mah-Jongg Q&A postings!
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Color key


• Green = a happy email from a grateful reader.
• DarkBlue = an FAQ, a question that's been asked and answered frequently.
• Purple = a less-than-happy email from a reader with a complaint.
• Red = a forbidden question, such as, for example, a technical support question about a computer game.
• Orange = an out-of-the-ordinary question or comment.
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