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● Mah-Jongg Basics (Universal)
● Simplified Chinese Rules (FAQ10)
● Misunderstood Chinese Rules (FAQ 20)

● Q & A Bulletin Board
● Find Players/Teachers BB
● Sets For Sale BB
● Sets Wanted BB
● Tiles For Sale BB
● Tiles Wanted BB
● Accessories For Sale BB
● Accessories Wanted BB

NMJL bulletin #10 is confusing, part 2

On Saturday, December 30, 2023 at 02:24:17 PM EST, <dujour1 wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
Super! I took a picture of your very experienced and succinct answer. I’m sure it will come up in my games. You are the best!
Happy New Year!

Happy New Year to you too, Kathie! Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 30, 2023
Donations appreciated

NMJL bulletin #10 is confusing

On Saturday, December 30, 2023 at 12:50:20 PM EST, dujour1 wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Is there a misprint in the new National Mah Jongg League Bulletin?
#10 under Q & A seems confusing.
~Kathie W
Traverse City, Michigan

Hi, Kathie! I agree that #10 is very confusing. I had to make a diagram, and then remake it, to understand what was going on. But rather than share the diagram, I'll just step through it...
1. Player A had an exposure of 3 craks atop her rack, with a joker in it.
2. Somebody (it doesn't matter who) discarded a tile that player B wanted.
3. Player B called the discard and made an exposure.
4. Player B said to player A, "I want your joker," and handed player A an 8 crak.
5. Player A foolishly took the 8 crak and handed the joker to player B.
6. Player B realized she'd given the wrong tile to player A.
7. A conversation ensued. Player B wanted to give the correct tile to player A (undoing the erroneous exchange) but somebody (it doesn't matter who) questioned the legality of doing so. And this is the question that the League answered in Q&A #10 in the bulletin.

As I wrote in column 793 a couple of days ago, the League's answer is that since the redeemer (player B) hadn't yet discarded, the error was rescindable. This validates what I'd written previously in FAQ 19-M4.
Hope that clarifies? Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 30, 2023
Donations appreciated

What is this about a "new rule"?

On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 01:40:35 PM EST, row019 wrote:
National Mahj jan 2024 new rule
Tom - thought this was always a rule.
NMJL new rule " A tile that is called for either and exposure or for Majh Jongg must be placed on the top of the rack"
What is your take?

Hi, row019! This rule was "new" last year, when it was introduced in the January 2023 newsletter.
Many players pick up the discard, bring it back to the sloping front of the rack, and then put up the whole exposure or the whole hand to the top of the rack. This "new rule" just says you shouldn't do that. You should put the discard atop the rack, without any detours to, or layovers in, the sloping front of the rack first. Go directly to the top of the rack, do not pass Go. (If that Monopoly reference helps.) Happy new year!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 27, 2023
Donations appreciated

P.S., Dec. 28: I've written a new column about the January 2024 newsletter. - Tom

How old is it, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q A
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 01:12:20 AM EST, Barry P wrote:
Thanks for your help, Tom. Much appreciated!
Barry P

You're welcome, Barry!
Tom Sloper
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 18, 2023
Donations appreciated

How old is it?

Mah-Jongg Q A
On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 04:41:28 PM EST, Barry P wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I'm trying to determine the age of my mother's Mah-jongg set, with the likely outcome of trying to sell the set.
Known history: My mother, who will be 100 years old in April 2024, played using this set for several decades, probably beginning in the early 1960s. She last used the set in 2018. The set was probably purchased in the Detroit, Michigan area, which is where she lived from 1950 - 1982.
Pictures of everything are attached to this email.
Contents of Mahjongg set:
152 total tiles, including 8 Jokers
Dimensions of tiles are 30x22x12mm
Chips: 25 red, 25 white, 25 green, 10 blue (total of 85 chips)
5 racks, each with an attached chip holder (one each of brown, yellow, and red; two green)
Two trays in carrying case
My name and contact info:
Barry P
Email: p
Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

Hi, Barry! The set was manufactured after 1971, since it has eight jokers. (See column 509.) I'm going to guess that the set was made in the 1970s or early 1980s. Two clues: the red and green dragons use different art (rather than looking the same except for the paint color), and those five marbled Catalin racks. By the 1990s when I started out in mah-jongg, manufacturers were making only four racks, not marbled, in a less expensive plastic, and the red and green dragon were usually made using the same mold pattern. And by the 1990s, manufacturers in China were including more than 8 flowers and more than 8 jokers since they were uncertain whether the National Mah Jongg League might require more than 8 of either or each.
If you need to try to narrow down that manufacture date, you can try these other excellent sites listed in FAQ 4A.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 17, 2023
Donations appreciated

P.S. It's very possible that your set originally came with more flowers and jokers. This you can determine based on whether there is leftover space when all the tiles are arranged in the trays. In the 1960s and 70s, it was a common practice to give extra tiles to other players so they could sticker them and have enough flowers and jokers. - Tom

Lost and Found on Facebook

Dear readers, Happy Holidays from the Sloperama curmudgeon! I will try my best to avoid total Grinchhood as I share with you today's discovery. I just found some previously undiscovered message requests from outside my usual Facebook circle. So sorry, but I don't reply via Facebook. Of course I realize it's extremely unlikely that any of these nice folks will see their questions answered here, but [citing the site's Terms of Service]. It wasn't and isn't my intent to ignore anyone! Seriously!

溌

On Nov. 17, 2023, Carol H sent a message request via Facebook:
Tom I have read through many of your articles while searching for some history on a Mahjong set I acquired. The bits and pieces I have been able to come up with are very limited…if I were to upload pictures are you interested in looking? Estimated age is 100years…not sure of tile material - not bone/bamboo, not likely bakelite as the coloring not yellowed, tiles not ‘pillowed’ and very square cornered, hand carved and painted, white dragon is blank with a red P in the corner. The oak case seems to fit descriptions of Chad Valley sets but the tiles don’t match anything I can find from images posted…
If you reply, Carol H will also be able to call you and see info like your Active Status and when you've read messages.

Hi, Carol! You don't have to ask permission to send me photos of a set for any sort of information I can help with. Just email them to me, and ask questions. I'll answer the best I can.

溌

On Oct. 1, 2023, 11:17 AM, Karen T sent a message request via Facebook:
Hi!!! We are longtime MahJong players and big fans of your book Red Dragon West Wind.
Unfortunately our lone copy is in storage while we undergo house reno so I was shopping for a second copy on Amazon.
I understand that a revised version was published in 2023?
I only see the 2007 version available on Amazon.es. Is it possible to find the updated version elsewhere?
We live in the Algarve in southern Portugal but our son will be traveling from Montreal to Portugal for Christmas if it is only possible to get a copy in North America.
Please let me know. The game is a BIG Christmas tradition for us and we need your book.
Thank you. Karen
If you reply, Karen T will also be able to call you and see info like your Active Status and when you've read messages.

Hi, Karen! No revised edition has been published. And I'm sorry that I do not know anything about the sales end. In the last month and a half, maybe you've managed to retrieve your old copy from storage... No, a renovation would be a lengthy process. Never mind.

溌

On December 9, 2020, Laura B sent a message request via Facebook:
I am looking forward to your presentation with the modern mahjong ladies. I have read your book and I refer to your website all the time.

On Aug 16, 2023, Laura B sent a message request via Facebook:
I sent you an email today from my yahoo account to mj at sloperama dot com and I don't know if you check this facebook private message or if you check your email.
I wanted to discuss the term bouquet in American mahj on the card from 1960 and 60 one, and then also discuss the 2 big jokers and the 14 flowers. And when they can be used as jokers and whether it is any tile or not. Singles and pairs and only pungs and belongs.
I can send you a picture of this card that I purchased from johnny levine for twenty five dollars so you can see it and answer queries but I don't want to see a picture of this card reproduced for free and out there for the public.
If you reply, Laura B will also be able to call you and see info like your Active Status and when you've read messages.

Hi, Laura! I'm so glad you emailed me so we could have our 5-part August-September conversation, below ("Bouquets on the 1960 card").

溌

On May 17, 2023, Mary H sent a message request via Facebook:
Hi, while exchanging for an exposed joker do I have to pass it hand to hand or can I after saying exchange slide it across the table?
If you reply, Mary H will also be able to call you and see info like your Active Status and when you've read messages.

Hi, Mary! Nothing should touch the discard floor unless it's being discarded. Hand that tile to the other person and receive the exchange by hand. It's called "best practice."

溌

Sorry these answers are so late / too late! The best way to get answers, [citing the site's Terms of Service], is to email me! You can write to tom at sloperama or webmaster at sloperama, don't forget the dot com, of course. Email is how I roll. I know it's old-fashioned, but I'm a Boomer and an oldtime computer user since the golden age of videogames. Hope you're okay with that.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 17, 2023
Donations appreciated

They say finessing is not allowed, part 2

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 02:06:10 PM EST, service@paypal wrote:
kraigk sent you money
Hello Thomas Sloper,
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Hi Tom, You are my go to source when I need a question answered. As I always mention in my questions, I play with a bunch of women. Fortunately the tiles are usually with me and I win more than my fair share of games. Women don’t like that!
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Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
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Total: $100.00 USD
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\(^ʘ_O^ʘ)/     Wow, I wasn't expecting that! Thank you, Kraig! May the tiles continue to usually be with you.
Tom Sloper
Donations appreciated muchly!

They say finessing is not allowed.

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 09:36:04 PM EST, Kraig K wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is: This question seems obvious to me but my fellow lady players, as usual say I’m wrong. I picked up a discarded tile for exposure. Then I traded another player a tile for for her exposed joker and declared Mah-Jongg. They told me I could not trade for a joker after I picked up a discarded tile. Therefore, I not only could not get paid double, but did not even have Mah- Jongg. It’s frustrating for me but what I have to deal with every week.
Your reply is greatly appreciated, Kraig K
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Kraig!
There are actually two opposing answers to your question:
1. They're wrong. That's called a "finesse" play, and it's perfectly legal. See FAQ 19-M and FAQ 19-AN. The rule sources are cited in the FAQs themselves. So if you have the official rulebook, you can show your friends the official rule in print.
2. You're wrong. The man is always wrong. That's just the way it is and resistance is futile.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 14, 2023
Donations appreciated

Emperor tiles, part 2

Re: Emperor tiles
On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 09:13:40 AM EST, R..., Charles wrote:
Thank you so much!

You're welcome, Chuck!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom

Old set question

On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 04:25:24 PM EST, Story E wrote:
Old set question.
Hi Mr Sloper,
Today a man gave me his mother’s old mahj set. He’s about 80 so I would have thought it was a 1940s set. But based on what I read, I think it may be a 1920s version.
I have no intention on selling it, but wanted to properly appreciate it! And I told my friend I’d find it’s age and maybe origin. Hope you can help.
I am attaching a pix of set and wooden case. I took a separate photo of 1bam, flowers, 5 crac and dragons.
Also, can you share a link that explains how they used those sticks. My friend was curious and I’m clueless.
Thanks, as always, for your help.
Story

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 10, 2023
Donations appreciated

P.S. Another clue that the tiles are post-heyday (possibly post-twenties): the bone is very thin (the 3rd picture shows an edge-on view). Bone is the harder-to-obtain material, more expense and trouble, so again this is a cost-cutting measure indicative of later manufacture. - Tom.

Emperor tiles

On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 12:16:20 AM EST, R, Charles wrote:
Emperor tiles
Hi Tom-
I spent a few hours on your website reading your faqs. Great job. My question is I bought a 148 tile set in a thrift store and it comes with 12 of these emperor tiles. I'm wondering if you might know any more about this set and why it has these weird tiles.
Thanks.
Chuck R

Hi, Chuck!
a. Do I know any more about this set, you ask. Only that it was made for use in Asia, not for export to the West, since there are no Western indices. And that it's in a zipper case. I can't tell if the tiles are closer to 1-5/32" tall (typical Western size) or 1-7/16" tall (typical Hong Kong / Vietnamese size), since the ruler in the photo isn't aligned with the tiles. I'm guessing that they're the bigger size, but the set might predate those larger tiles.
b. Why does it have Emperors instead of flowers and 4 blanks, you ask. I can only guess.
1. Could be that the target market is a region where players don't use the flowers in the classical way, thus don't care that they aren't numbered for seat positions, thus the tiles could be used as seatless flowers or as jokers, according to player preference.
2. Could be that the set is targeted to Southeast Asian players who just want a lot of jokers, without the complication of all the specialized jokers many Vietnamese players use.
I'll add this Q&A to the "Mystery Jokers" FAQ (FAQ 7-EJ).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 9, 2023
Donations appreciated

Donation

On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 06:25:22 AM EST, service@paypal wrote:
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Thank you so much for your ongoing support, Evelyn. Happy holidays 2U.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
December 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

Near the end of the game, it's discovered that the top tile on the last stack is missing.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 09:12:35 PM EST, Barbara J wrote:
Rules question
Hi Tom,
Asking for NMJL rules, please:
As the last wall is pushed out, it is discovered that the top tile on the last stack is missing. Now what happens?
Thanks,
Barbara J

Hi, Barbara!
The back end of the wall ends with a single tile? That would probably mean someone picked a tile from the wrong end at some point but nobody noticed at the time. If you can't identify the culprit, there's nothing that can be done but play on to the end. And be more watchful thereafter.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 30, 2023
Donations appreciated

Person discarded a tile, but kept her finger on it. Then a problem ensued.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 09:11:18 PM EST, Star F wrote:
RE: MJ Question
Hello Tom, I have a question about discarding a tile. Person discarded a tile, but kept her finger on it while she was thinking about it, She also did not verbalize the name of the tile. A person asked what tile she discarded, but before she answered, another person picked a tile from the wall and racked it. The person discarding the tile announced the tile, and the lady who did not hear it, nor see it, called for it for Mah Jongg. I read rules if the tile was misread, but I didn't see a ruling if the tile was not announced, and sort of hidden by a finger. I thought the person should not have drawn a tile until discarded tile was properly announced, and that the MJ stands. Please advise.
Thank you!
Star F

Hi, Star! You wrote:

SF: Person discarded a tile, but kept her finger on it while she was thinking about it
TS: This is not good etiquette. The tile was discarded as soon as it touched the discard floor. She does need to say its name to complete her play, but the tile is not hers to take back at this point. See FAQ 19-A: The tile is down when it either touches the table or is named, whichever comes first. And see FAQ 19-AM: Once the tile is down, the discarder cannot take it back.
So it's just holding up the game if she's "still thinking" (instead of allowing the game to continue) after the tile is no longer hers.

SF: before she [could say the tile's name], another person picked a tile from the wall and racked it. ... I thought the person should not have drawn a tile until discarded tile was properly announced
TS: You're right, the next player may not pick yet. That was an illegal play. As it says in FAQ 19-A, this rule is stated on the back of the card. See middle top: "A tile cannot be claimed until completely named."

SF: The person discarding the tile announced the tile, and the lady who did not hear it, nor see it, called for it for Mah Jongg.
TS: Back of the card: "A tile cannot be claimed until completely named." At this point, the player who picked illegally could be called dead for playing out of turn (FAQ 19-AA), but why not just make her put it back on the wall since another player is claiming mah-jongg anyway. The player with her finger on her discard needs to take her finger off and say the tile's name. Then the tile can be claimed for mah-jongg.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 30, 2023
Donations appreciated

Please confirm this rule and where it's authoritatively stated

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, November 20, 2023 at 11:27:57 PM EST, Aleli L wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
“A player has exposed 4 tiles, 1 being a joker. Prior to her next turn, the player before her fails to trade for the joker with the tile they discard. Can the player with the exposed tiles pick up that discarded tile to place with her exposed tiles and put the joker back in her rack?”
I believe the answer is no, she cannot, however, can’t find anything written regarding it. Would appreciate you pointing me in the right direction toward that end. Thanks so much!
Sent from my iPad

Your belief is correct, Aleli, and it's easy to find the source of the citation. In FAQ 19, just look for the category of the rule. This is a Jokers question, right? The question is "Can I claim a discarded redeemable tile?" (FAQ 19-G2). And there, in FAQ 19-G2, after giving the rule ("it can only be taken to create a new set for exposure or mah-jongg. It is NOT permitted to take the tile in order to redeem it for a joker."), the FAQ also cites the source of the NMJL rule: It's in the official rulebook, Mah Jongg Made Easy.

I'm sure there are also statements of the rule in yearly newsletters. Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 21, 2023
Donations appreciated

Mahj-X

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 07:06:31 PM EST, John Davis wrote:
An invitation to play Mahj-X
Is it Skill or Luck?
Over the past nine years, I have played American Mah Jongg with probably a thousand different people. I've played in homes, senior centers, libraries, restaurants, at the beach, in local tournaments of 120 players and national tournaments of 500, in private high-stakes monthly tournaments, in monthly year-long tournaments, and in a fund-raising night at an art gallery. I’ve played online at a variety of game sites with both live players and with bots. I’ve played Siamese Mah Jongg with my wife and run several Siamese mini tournaments. I also play regularly in several Royale Siamese groups. (Royale is Siamese Mah Jongg with four people and two sets of tiles.)
As a result, there are a few things I can safely conclude:
First, you can't escape the effect of luck in American Mah Jongg: good or bad, luck will happen, no matter what. Ask anyone sitting with no jokers on their rack, or who has been one away for an entire game and still loses, if they think luck has anything to do with it. Ask anyone who loses game after game for no apparent reason if they think luck has anything to do with it, or when the opposite happens, and they win one game after another after another. Luck is inescapable.
Second, luck is a major reason that the game is so popular. In the same way that people who buy lottery tickets believe that they can get lucky, Mah Jongg players also believe that luck may come their way. Whether they’ve only played a few times or for a few decades, they can always get lucky. Otherwise, why bother?
Third, there is a natural evolution of the game of American Mah Jongg. First, there was the National Mah Jongg League’s codification of the International Mah Jongg game for American players, then there were Mah Jongg tournaments across the country, then there were the websites where you can play the game by yourself or with friends, and most recently there are Siamese and Royale Mah Jongg.
However, one question still nags me:
Is it possible that the rules of the game favor luck over skill?
So, in December, 2022, I decided to seriously investigate the issue of luck vs. skill. I invited a small group of expert players, teachers, tournament directors, and online game designers to join in a conversation about the possibility of shifting the balance from luck to skill. Through many, many, hours-long and sometimes meandering Zoom meetings, we learned to talk to and listen to one another-- skills that paid off as we gave thought to which rules we might amend or add. As often happens in these situations, new ideas sprang up, so that eventually a new version of the game emerged. MAHJ-X's integrated set of rules works in concert to allow players to become more strategic and lessen the influence of luck.
MAHJ-X
You are invited to learn more about the game and the MAHJ-X team by
joining the MAHJ-X Facebook Group
Or
visiting the MAHJ-X website
MAHJ-X is free, by the way.
Try it; you’ll like it!
[Remainder of email omitted]
Mahj on My Mind | Thousand Oaks, CA

(^_^) Sounds like a lot of work, John! I note especially the "many, many, hours-long and sometimes meandering Zoom meetings" part! Congrats on working out a set of skill-based rules. Here's hoping it does better than the "Duplicate Mahjong" idea of a few years ago (when the Chinese Majiang folks were hoping to get mah-jongg included in international Mind Sports events).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 20, 2023
Donations appreciated

Clarification, please

On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 02:09:58 AM EST, Star F wrote:
Clarification Please
Hello Tom, please make a clarification. We had someone pick a flower from the table, expose it on her rack, along with 2 other flowers and a joker. Then realized she only needed 3 flowers so she returned the joker to her rack.... before discarding. I assume this is acceptable.
Now, if she had decided to change her entire exposure, it is not acceptable since she drew a discard. Is this correct? I recall some change of rules on this situation, but can't find the rule change so I'm not sure what is involved. Can you clarify this for me?
Thanks,
Star

>Q: Can I makes changes to my exposure?
>A: YES, you can make changes, as long as you do it BEFORE redeeming a joker, or discarding a tile.
> NO, once you have discarded a tile, or redeemed a joker.
>Ex: If you claim a flower to make a kong, and you accidentally add a joker to it (making it a quint) and your targeted hand requires a kong, you can take the joker back - as long as you do it before you do anything else, like redeeming a joker or discarding.
>** Likewise, if you make an error exposing the wrong tiles and you need to change it to expose the correct tiles, you can do that as long as you do it before doing anything else, like redeeming a joker or discarding.

Hi, Star!

SF: Then realized she only needed 3 flowers so she returned the joker to her rack.... before discarding. I assume this is acceptable.
TS: Yes.

SF: Now, if she had decided to change her entire exposure, it is not acceptable since she drew a discard. Is this correct?
TS: It's my turn to seek clarification. What do you mean "change her entire exposure"? Please clarify the question.

SF: I recall some change of rules on this situation, but can't find the rule change
TS: Where are you looking for NMJL rule changes? What source(s)?

SF: >Q: Can I makes changes to my exposure?
TS: You cited some source. What source are you citing? Some of the words in the answer match exactly the wording in FAQ 19-AF, but some words don't. If you want me to clarify some wording, I need to know the source of that wording.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 17, 2023
Donations appreciated

How to obtain tiles to complete the set?

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 12:28:32 AM EST, Deb Q wrote:
orphan pieces from mahjong set
Hello,
I happened upon your page on the internet tonight and wonder if I might ask you a question.
Friends of mine are teaching me mahjong. They are 2nd generation Chinese American and are playing a set that they inherited
from their mother. I am guessing that the set is maybe from the 1930's to 1960's. They are missing four tiles from this set, and I believe that they are flowers.
I am attaching pictures of the missing tiles.
Do you have any recommendations for how to find and buy these orphan tiles?
Thank you for your time,
Deb
tile stack.jpg
Mahjong tiles no. 3 and 4.jpg
mahjong flower no. 2.jpg
Mahjong flower no. 1.jpg

By the way, all you really need is tiles that match in size and color - the tile fronts don't need to match the existing flowers (it's normal for all eight flowers to look different from one another). Even if the replacement tiles aren't flowers, they can be stickered to represent any tile that's missing from the set. FAQ 7-T describes a way of making your own stickers.
Good luck with your quest!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 16, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 24

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 08:24:38 PM EST, Stacey S wrote:
Thanks, Tom. Bad editing.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

You're welcome, Stacey.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
11/11/2023
Donations appreciated

Interested in the early rules and cards, part 3

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 07:17:49 PM EST, Caryl L wrote:
You’re welcome! I’ve been searching madly for Viola Cecil’s 1938 book to no avail. Any chance you have a source?
Caryl
Sent from my iPhone

No, sorry!
Play safe out there, Caryl. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
11/11/2023
Donations appreciated

Your Book and MCR, part 4

RE: Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Gaston M
On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 04:19:28 PM EST, Gastón M wrote:
Splendid! Two cooks stirring the same pot. The formatting is much cleaner in the e revision and is in book form. Perhaps e is the one to hang our hats on.

Perhaps so. That is the one on the official site. Still, it does have that error in the table-size paragraph...
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
11/11/2023
Donations appreciated

Interested in the early rules and cards, part 2

On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 03:40:54 PM EST, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Caryl L
Hello Thomas Sloper,
Donation Received
This email confirms that you have received a donation of $25.00 USD from Caryl L
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Total amount: $25.00 USD
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Quantity: 1
Purpose: Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
Contributor: Caryl Lawton
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On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 04:16:31 PM EST, Caryl L wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
Dear Tom,
Thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate your knowledge and dedication to all of us Mah Jongg fanatics. Immediately after learning to play in 2009 I bought your book, which was a great help, and at your suggestion purchased Mah Jongg Made Easy, and every revision since then.
I’m fascinated with the evolution of the rules since the inception of the league, and have documented the rule changes and other changes as seen on the cards throughout the years. I’m excitedly waiting for the arrival of what may well be the final card to make my collection complete! Not sure what I want to do with the data I’ve collected, though!
Somehow I think that if there were to be people who would be interested in my research they would be found in the Mah Jongg Collectors Association Facebook group. So I will hope one of their ranks will reach out to me.
I took some pictures for you of my oldest cards. I have two styles of cards from 1941, one as you described, and another one that more closely conforms to our cards today.
The 1940 cards are entirely different in format to what came the next year. And, based on the two
I have, it appears they were reprinted at least once during that year also. The hands remained the same, as did the rules, though a couple sentences were altered, seemingly for clarity.
I hope you enjoy the pictures. If you’d like to see the 1940 hands and rules, I’d be happy to send pictures of that, too.
Your devoted fan,
Caryl
image0.jpeg
image1.jpeg
image2.jpeg
Sent from my iPhone

Thanks so much for the generous donation, Caryl! And for those images. I'd not seen any of those before. I assume the hands on that 1940 card match the hands in Viola Cecil's 1940 book, pictured below.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
11/11/2023
Donations appreciated

Your Book and MCR, part 3

Re: Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Gaston M
On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 02:17:35 PM EST, Gastón M wrote:
Hi Tom.
The latest document seems to be 20140411MCREnglish-2 (attached). It was modified on 11/5/2023. For the others:
20140411English modified on 9/14/2014
MCR201408e modified 7/31/2014.
Gastón

Gastón, what source are you using to determine those modification timestamps? On my copy that I downloaded from your email just now, the file's Properties show:
Created: Saturday, November 11, 2023, 2:55:17 PM
Modified: Saturday, November 11, 2023, 2:55:22 PM
Accessed: Today, November 11, 2023, 3 minutes ago
When I suggested you check the metadata on your files, my intent was to confirm that 20140411MCREnglish-2 was later than 20140411English on your computer. I do see a slight size difference between those two files.
Only a side-by-side comparison, paragraph by paragraph, could spot the actual differences. Strike that: I found that Acrobat has a Compare feature. The two files that should be compared are 20140411MCREnglish-2 and MCR201408e. Trying it just now, though, Adobe wants me to sign up for a 7-day free trial, after which I would have to pay $14.98 every month for Adobe Acrobat Pro. I don't want to add that complication to my life right now, not knowing in advance what might happen when the free trial runs out. A Google search also reveals some free options: xodo.com, Soda PDF, filestage.io, kofax.com... and it might also be possible to compare them with Microsoft Word. I'm afraid I can't spend time making the comparison right now; too much going on following a death in the family. Perhaps another reader may have an insight for us.

Followup: Curiosity took hold of me, so I tried a comparison in Word. It flags a lot of changes from apostrophes to "smart" apostrophes or vice versa (and from quotes to "smart quotes" or vice versa), and places where a space has been introduced between a word and a number, or a hyphen between two numbers. See the regulation on the table size: it reads "80-95 centimeters" in English-2, and "8095 centimeters" in 201408e. That makes it seem like English-2 is the trusted version, but then look at 3.9.1.2, "The Points structure of Winning Hand" - it's messed up in English-2, and cleaner in 201408e. So there are different formatting problems in both files.

I have not tried a complete comparison to find more. I set 201408e as "revised" and English-2 as "original," but that looks messy. I don't know if reversing that setting would give a nicer result. Note that it gets especially messy when the fan table's pagination differs between the two. It might be easier to print the two out, and compare visually.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
11/11/2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 23

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 03:09:34 PM EST, Stacey L. S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Sent from Mail for Windows
Hi…on the 2023 Card, under Consecutive Runs, 5th hand down, does this HAVE to be 1-2-3?

See FAQ 16, Stacey. The hand can be any 3 consecutive numbers. The only hand in Consecutive Runs that has to be "these numbers only" is the top one.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
11/11/2023
Donations appreciated

Interested in the early rules and cards of the NMJL

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 12:15:30 AM EST, Caryl L wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I am interested in the history of the NMJL, the early rules and cards. Are you aware of a good resource to answer my questions? I have written to the NMJL twice, but haven’t received any response either time.
I have been collecting vintage NMJL cards for years and want to know what year the first card was produced. I also want to know if a card was ever printed with the date 1942. I have one that says 1941, two different styles dated 1941-42, and 1943, but have yet to discover one for 1942.
Additionally, I am curious to understand the role of flowers in American Mah Jongg before the advent of the Joker in the 60’s. The rules on the back of the early cards don’t spell it out.
I also would like the kitty explained.
I know this is a lot to ask. Hopefully someone has written about this and You can pass me along to them. If not, I would appreciate your knowledge on these matters.
Thanks for your help.
Caryl L
Sent from my iPhone

Hi, Caryl! I'll reply to your questions as best I can:

CL: Are you aware of a good resource to answer my questions?
TS: I imagine Johni Levene's Mah Jongg Collectors Assn Facebook group has members with good collections of NMJL cards and rulebooks. But it's a private group. (Just telling you what I'm aware of.) Maybe one of the group's members will see this exchange and will contact me with corrections or confirmation of my replies here.

CL: I have written to the NMJL twice, but haven’t received any response either time.
TS: I suspect that even the League doesn't possess a complete historical record all the way back to 1937. And of course their priority rightly is servicing current members and improving/clarifying the current rules.

CL: want to know what year the first card was produced.
TS: As far as I knew (prior to getting your email), up until the 1941-42 card, the rules were produced only in the form of books.

I thought there were no cards before the 1941-42 card. Mine is encased in plastic with a sewn border and brass corners; I assume they were all like that, but you wrote:

CL: I have one that says 1941, two different styles dated 1941-42
TS: Your collection is more complete than mine. I've never seen a card labeled simply "1941."

CL: have yet to discover one for 1942.
TS: Yes, there may not be a 1942 card. In a conversation with Johni many years ago, she didn't have one either.

CL: I am curious to understand the role of flowers in American Mah Jongg before the advent of the Joker in the 60’s.
TS: Flowers were wild; they could be used to substitute for any other tile, in any way the player desired. In fact, the 1938 book calls these tiles "Flowers or Jokers." The 1938 rules say that "an extra limit" is paid to any winning hand that does not include any flowers. The 1938 rulebook includes illustrations of hands including flowers (pages 41-43). In later years, when there were lots more flowers than just eight, I've heard that players took to "planting wildflowers" in the wall (because many or most players had non-matching flower tiles borrowed from other sets and stickered), and even having players start with a minimum number of flowers. The 1943 card says it was illegal to discard flowers or to pass flowers in the Charleston. The 1938 book mentions discarding flowers when "dogging," not saying "flower" but rather the name of the previous discard. Finally, on the topic of early flower use, see also FAQ 19-AI, which links to other articles.

CL: I also would like the kitty explained.
TS: It's explained in the 1938 rulebook. Players all put chips into the kitty before dealing a hand. Some rule infractions require the player to put additional chips into the kitty. The contents of the kitty are taken by the winner of the hand. In the 2000s I played with groups who used a kitty; one table awarded the kitty to a winner who made a 30-cent hand or above (no kitty for a regular 25-cent hand). But you don't need to read that last sentence.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
11/11/2023
Donations appreciated

Your Book and MCR, part 2

Re: Your Book and MCR
On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:24:28 PM EST, Gastón M wrote:
Hi Tom.
Thanks for your reply.
My address is:
[omitted]
I will be making a donation to your site.
Cordially yours,
Gastón

On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 11:25:46 PM EST, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Gaston M
Hello Thomas Sloper,
Donation Received
This email confirms that you have received a donation of $25.00 USD from Gaston M
You can view the transaction details online.
Donation Details
Total amount: $25.00 USD
Currency: U.S. Dollars
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Contributor: Gaston M
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Thanks very much, Gastón! You didn't need to do that. I'll mail your book after the weekend. Again: this is just between us; I don't want my readers to think I'm running a mail-order business, because I'm not.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
11/11/2023
Donations appreciated

RE: Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Gaston M
On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 11:32:23 AM EST, Gastón M wrote:
You’re welcome. I was going to do it anyway.

Your Book and MCR

On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 01:02:05 PM EST, Gastón M wrote:
Your Book and MCR
Hi Tom.
First of all, thank you the superb website you maintain and your great book!
I have several 2014 MCR PDF document revisions that I downloaded from the WMO site. These are:
21040411MCREnglish
21040411MCREnglish-2
It is annoying that they don’t specify a revision number or date inside the document to avoid confusion. Do you know which one of these is the latest/official?
The Red Dragon and the West Wind is one of my two favorite mahjong books but the pages have yellowed and will likely begin to disintegrate soon. Since MCR’s have been updated a few times and there is errata, are you planning to update it soon, hopefully on acid-free paper?
Also, are you contemplating writing a new book that focuses on MCR Mahjong? MCR scoring is complicated and there is a need for a book that addresses, in depth, what can and cannot be combined with each fan.
The answers to these questions will determine whether I re-buy your existing book or wait for an even better one.
Cordially yours,
Gastón M

Hi, Gastón!
I'm guessing that the "-2" version is just a copy of the first. You could compare the filesizes and the creation/edit dates in Windows, and I'm sure there's a way to get metadata from files on MacOS too.
Just now I went to the World Mahjong Org's website and the latest English version I found there is MCR201408e.pdf. When I gathered together all my editions of the WMO's official rules, and found that I did not already have a copy of 201408e, but I did already have a copy of 20140411MCREnglish.
It would be odd if the one available on the website now was older than the ones you and I have. I think we need to decipher the filenames...
"201408e" could be "August 2014, 4th version" or it could mean "2014, 8th Edition."
"20140411" could be "April 11, 2014" or it could be "Nov. 4, 2014." More likely April.
I think we need to assume that the one on the website now (MCR201408e.pdf) must be the definitive version.

2014 is nine years ago. I assume that I covered any 20140411 rule changes into the RDWW errata. I'll need to recheck the errata against 201408e...
I would love to update the book. It has not recouped its advance, so I don't know if the publisher would be willing. I'll keep in mind the need for acid-free paper in the future.
I haven't traveled to any overseas tournaments since Covid. I would want to participate in at least one before I would feel comfortable putting out a new work on MCR. No travel plans at the moment.
I have over a dozen copies of RDWW that I bought to provide to students before Covid changed things. If you send me your address, I'll send you one. (Don't tell anybody, though. I wouldn't want my readers to get any ideas.)
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 10, 2023
Donations appreciated

Lamp for impaired vision, part 2

On Monday, November 6, 2023 at 12:33:07 PM EST, DONNA E wrote:
Lights
> ?For visually impaired Ott Lights are fabulous.
> Some are battery operated or others plug in. They sit on the corner of the table just great!
> I have two friends who need them and they work great
> Donna ??

Thanks for the tip, Donna. A quick Google turns up the brand name OttLite. And I see that they come in a variety of configurations. Maybe your tip will help Jim M's friend!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 6, 2023
Donations appreciated

Please add to one of your FAQs, part 3

Re: FAQ 7i: Mah-Jongg Cards... and Kards
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 05:08:57 PM EDT, Frank A wrote:
Good afternoon, Tom.
I'm glad that they posted their free card online. It's a quick way to get a card without having to first order then wait for a card to arrive in the mail.
I've been to Rochester. When I was a kid in Brooklyn, I wrote a letter to Kodak to request some instructional brochures on photography. They sent a bunch :)
I heard about the peregrine falcons that nested in the Kodak and Times Square Buildings and in other towers. I've been checking up on them over the years.
Thanks for reminding me about that FAQ. I totally forgot that I read it and downloaded the Mahjong Friends Online app earlier this year. I opened the app just now.
Thanks again for your quick replies.
Sincerely,
Frank

Hadn't heard about the nesting peregrines. Did photograph a red-tailed hawk last winter.
Play safe out there.

Lamp for impaired vision while playing

On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 01:12:52 PM EDT, jamesc wrote:
Mah Jongg Light
Tom,
We have a player who has a serious eye problem and has trouble seeing the tiles.
She wants to continue playing and really enjoys the game.
Do you know about any type of small table lamp that she could use to see the tiles more clearly without disturbing the other players at the table?
Jim M

No, Jim, I don't. Maybe Debbie Barnett will invent one! Just kidding. But maybe a reader will find something...
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

We invented an app!

On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 01:36:33 PM EDT, Debbie Barnett wrote:
Mahjpedia App
Hello Tom,
I hope this finds you well! I am excited to share with you our new App now available on Google Play and the App store. Please try it out and let me know what you think.
Not sure if you can add a link to this on your resource page but I also have a how to use the app video here, https://youtu.be/vCsTRa8_3tk
Mahjpedia Reveal FB Post.png
I will be slowly but surely adding interesting facts about Mah Jongg while using your site and of course use you as the source.
Cheers!
Kind Regards,
Debbie Barnett

I'll add it to FAQ 5, Debbie. Good luck with it!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

Please add to one of your FAQs, part 2

On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 12:07:44 PM EDT, Frank A wrote:
Re: FAQ 7i: Mah-Jongg Cards... and Kards
Thanks for your quick reply, Tom.
I'm sorry, but I don't know who they are. I just found that free mahjong card after doing a Google search because a kind lady was teaching American mahjong to us yesterday, but 3 of us "students" didn't have our own American mahjong cards. We all used her NMJL card. I definitely want to gain more experience playing American mahjong, in person here in SoCal or elsewhere during my travels or online.
Our family lived in Texas for a short time decades ago though when I was a kid. And I was stationed there as an active duty Marine in 1994. I've visited a couple times since.
Whereabouts in New York do you live? I'm a native New Yorker, born in Manhattan.
I started playing (in person) again this year, around the Lunar New Year. The place we were at had a Chinese set lying at the bottom of their cabinet full of games, so I taught 12 people how to play Filipino rules and we played for many days and nights to celebrate Lunar New Year.
Soon after I left that place, I ordered my second ever mahjong set, a Vietnamese set with 160 tiles. (We used the 4 blanks and 4 of the Vietnamese jokers as the 8 American jokers yesterday.) So far, I've used my new set to teach Filipino rules to 9 people here since we first unwrapped the set 9 days ago, including the American mahjong lady and a Japanese lady who plays riichi mahjong.
The last time I recall playing before that was in 1996, when I got off active duty in the Marines the first time and went back to college. I also taught 12 or so of my friends that year and we had regular mahjong parties in our apartment in Honolulu.
I've never played online. What's the best app or website to play Filipino rules? Is Taiwanese the closest style to Filipino?
I visited Hong Kong in 1995 when our ship pulled into port there a couple times, but unfortunately I didn't learn their style or play any mahjong while I was there. I did however purchase my first ever mahjong set during that trip, in Hong Kong, Singapore, or Malaysia. I forgot which port.
Same to you, Tom. Take care.
Sincerely,
Frank

I see, Frank. It's just that when you asked me to "please" add a link to the Cards FAQ, I assumed there was something in it for you. At first, I thought you had created I Love Mahj, but when I checked the site's About page I found it's that couple from Texas who created it. I then figured you must be a partner or something. As for your other questions:
I live in Rochester, 341.5 miles from Manhattan.
I don't know offhand if there is an app where you can play Filipino rules. Check FAQ 5.
Filipino and Taiwanese rules use different scoring. Their seeming similarity is based solely on how many tiles are used in the hand (they're the only two variants that win with 17 tiles rather than 14).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

Please add to one of your FAQs

On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 12:00:08 AM EDT, Frank A wrote:
FAQ 7i: Mah-Jongg Cards... and Kards
Greetings, Tom.
Could you please include the URL for the free I Love Mahj card in FAQ 7i?
https://ilovemahj.com/ilmCard
I'm in SoCal. Where do you usually play? Thanks for everything that you do. I learned to play mahjong in 1981 but I've learned a lot from your website.
Sincerely,
Frank

It's done, Frank. What's your relationship with Philippe and Julie and ILM? They're in Texas and you're in California, so what gives? I'm in Western New York, haven't played in person since the COVID pandemic started in 2020, so I play online but I'm not saying more than that. I learned Hong Kong rules in 1994 and it's been quite a road since then.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

Sloperama supportarama

On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 06:12:20 AM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
You received a payment
Hello, Thomas Sloper
Nov 4, 2023 03:12:10 PDT
You received a payment from Evelyn H for Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
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Thank you so much for your ongoing support, Evelyn!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

What decade were my mystery tiles made in, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q A
On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 02:55:15 PM EDT, Michele C wrote:
Thank you for the link. Makes me wonder if the face (what I called jester) is a flower vs a joker. From what I understand the red tile is a wild tile called Fei. Like a joker or IS a joker. I assumed the jesters and the blanks were the jokers...now I am not sure which are the jokers but I clearly have 8 flowers (4 seasons and 4 capture). I watched a woman on youtube who lived in Hong Kong and called them melamine but I agree with you...not really sure what the plastic is and I have googled the manufacturers name and can't seem to locate the shop/business so impossible to figure out when they were made. Thanks again!
Thank you,
Michele C

Michele, the full scoop on how those Malaysian "fly" and "face" tiles are used is given in the link in the FAQ. See https://sloperama.com/mahjongg/malaysian.html - Vincent Cheah communicated all that info to me in 2003.
If the tiles are "new-ish" as you say, then they could have been made anytime in the 90s, 00s, or 10s. If the case is shiny brown vinyl, I'd guess 90s or 00s. But I don't see how that makes much difference in the set's value.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 3, 2023
Donations appreciated

What decade were my mystery tiles made in? Also...

Mah-Jongg Q A
On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 12:42:30 PM EDT, Michele C wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: Hello Tom! I have been buying and selling antique/vintage mah jong sets for a few years now and recently purchased a set from Hong Kong, case label says Hong-Kong Mahjong Manufactory. Possibly new-ish, melamine, assuming machine made but I was attracted to the jester jokers and couldn't resist. With some research they appear fairly traditional large thick two tone with bue backs. There is one tile I am not sure of and if you have any knowledge of what decade they were likely made in that would be great. Please see pictures attached, upper left tile (I have red dragons and winds and 4 jester and 4 blank jokers so I can't figure these out). Many many thanks for Sloperama! p.s. do you have a link that describes tournament rules...I have only played at homes and wondering what the differences might be.
All the best, Michele

Hi, Michele!
Your "Mystery Tiles" are illustrated in FAQ 7-E. They're tiles used in Malaysian mah-jongg. Sorry, but I can't possibly guess what decade your tiles were made in.
You said they're made of melamine, but I can't confirm that, either. That type of tile is more likely made of high-density polyethylene, as seen in FAQ 7c3, the "Plastics"FAQ. From what I found on a Google search just now, melamine might be the plastic my sister's dinnerware is made of - so I thank you for the opportunity to learn something new!
And sorry again, but I don't have an FAQ that defines tournament rules. My book describes Chinese Majiang Competition Rules but since you referred to blank tiles as "blank jokers," I'm guessing you play American/NMJL rules. Every organizer of American-style tournaments sets their own rules, but I suggest you check out Gladys Grad's "Mah Jongg Madness" website. If I recall correctly, she describes her tournament rules there. I just checked - "Madness" was the old name. Now it's called Mah Jongg Masters. https://mahjongg.org/
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 3, 2023
Donations appreciated

Called her dead and then withdrew the challenge

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 04:42:36 PM EDT, Hedy G wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Hi Tom, what is the rule if a player calls someone’s hand and she says I’m not and then that player immediately realizes that she is not and withdraws the death challenge. Is that player called dead or can she withdraw her death challenge and play simply continues. I always thought that if you call someone dead and at the end of the game, if the player was not truly dead then the one who called her dead owes her the value of the hand and if she wins then that player owes double the value of the hand. If she was dead and continued playing she would owe the other player double the value of the hand. In other words what is the correct rule of a death challenge?
Thank you
Hedy G
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Hedy!
A death challenge cannot be withdrawn. A death challenge can be in the form of "sorry my dear, but you're dead" or "waitaminnit, are you dead?" These verbalizations draw the eyes of all players to the challengee's exposures, and that is not to be taken lightly. Once those words are spoken, they cannot be unspoken.
You have the death challenge rules mostly right, but the amount to be paid is not "double value of the hand," but rather "50 cents" (or 50 points, for those who keep score in non-coinage terms), which was changed from 25 cents by the League in 2020. See FAQ 19-AA and FAQ 19-AB immediately below it.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
November 1, 2023
Donations appreciated

I had a redeemable tile, part 2

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 07:16:08 PM EDT, xlnancy wrote:
My mistake
Dear Tom:
I'm so sorry Tom. I should have said that I made my exposure and was about to discard one of my two remaining tiles when I realized it would leave me with the exchangeable seven crak. That's when I asked myself if it would be legal to make the discard and the exchange at the same time. It was a confusing situation because, under normal circumstances when you are 'waiting' to call for a Mah Jongg, you don't have a discard tile in your hand. As it was, I actually had two discards, one of which I planned to exchange for a joker at my next turn.
Suppose I had picked my needed tile from the wall instead of calling and exposing a pung. In that case I would exchange the seven crak for a joker and discard my last unwanted tile. Then, I would be in the 'waiting' mode.
Sincerely,
Nancy

Okay, Nancy! So you would have been able to finesse on the next turn, because you didn't redeem the joker on this turn. You wouldn't be calling a discard and redeeming a joker at the same time; you have to redeem AFTER making the exposure, when your hand totals 14 tiles. Holding 14 tiles is a prerequisite for joker redemption. There are 2 ways to obtain a 14th tile: by picking or by calling. So yes, joker redemption is legal after making an exposure.
But as you found, holding off on redeeming a joker so you can finesse is risky; if you'd redeemed when you had the chance, you could probably win sooner. As it happened, somebody else went out before you could. But, that's just how the mah-jongg goddesses like to mess with us.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Halloween, 2023
Donations appreciated

Is her hand dead, part 2

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 01:59:47 PM EDT, Sue S wrote:
Re: Question
Thank you for your quick answer. I do have one more question.
I understand that the player who drew and discarded out of turn is dead but what about the previous player who had not yet discarded? Some said she is also dead because she has 14 instead of 13 tiles in her hand and did not monitor the next player who went out of turn.
Again, I appreciate your free service and will make a donation to keep it going! Sue
Sent from my iPhone

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 02:07:10 PM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
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Thank you for the generous donation, Sue! I don't understand why the player whose turn it is doesn't simply discard. Yes, she's holding 14 tiles, but technically her turn never ended (somebody else picking out of turn does not cause other players' hands to go dead). All she has to do is discard.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Halloween, 2023
Donations appreciated

Backsies! Can she change her mind about discarding?

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 01:00:04 PM EDT, Linda K wrote:
Question
If a player names a tile, but it does not touch the table, can the player replace it for a joker? She did not indicate replacement before naming it.
Thank for your help. Linda

Hi, Linda! Once the discard has been named, it's too late for the erstwhile discarder to change her mind. See the Backsies/Change of Heart rules in FAQ 19-AM.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Halloween, 2023
Donations appreciated

Is her hand dead?

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 11:42:28 AM EDT, Sue S wrote:
Question
If a player draws and racks a tile from the wall before the previous person has discarded is her hand dead?
Thanks so much for your answer - you are my group’s “official” guide!!!
Sent from my iPhone

Yes, Sue. Picking out of turn is a death penalty offense. See FAQ 19-AA for the death penalty rules.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Halloween, 2023
Donations appreciated

I had a redeemable tile that I could have won with, but is that a legal play?

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 02:13:35 AM EDT, xlnancy wrote:
Unusual situation
Dear MJ:
I had two tiles left before I could declare a Mah Jongg. One of them was a seven crak which I planned to exchange, when it was my turn, for an exposed joker on another player's rack. In the meantime, I called a tile and made the proper exposure on my rack. At that point all I had left was the seven crak which I could exchange for a joker to give me a Mah Jongg. But could I? It was not officially my turn. Since I am a Mah Jongg teacher, I questioned the legality of such a move. The other players, all of whom were my former students, looked to me for the answer. But I didn't have it because I've never encountered a similar situation in my seventy-five years of knowing how the game is played. (I was about ten years old when learned it) Now I'm heading towards ninety).
As it turned out, the player with the exposed seven craks got her Mah Jonng before I had a chance to make the winning exchange. Of course, I got teased by the other players for being too honest. They would have believed whatever I told them. Oh well, that's part of the magic of Mah Jongg. Every game is a lesson and a personal challenge for your mind, your spirit, and sometimes your integrity.
Sincerely,
Nancy J. P
Eugene, Oregon

Hi, Nancy! You wrote:

NP: when it was my turn, for an exposed joker on another player's rack. In the meantime, I called a tile and made the proper exposure on my rack. At that point all I had left was the seven crak which I could exchange for a joker to give me a Mah Jongg. But could I? It was not officially my turn.
TS: You took your turn out of turn, but that's perfectly legal. You hadn't discarded yet, so your turn that you took out of turn hadn't ended yet.
Here's how your verbalizations should have progressed: "Call! I'll take that tile, and make my exposure. Now: may I please have your joker? Here's my seven crak. Mahj! I win! Everybody owes me double."

NP: I've never encountered a similar situation
TS: I've had that situation several times, and I've seen players at my table do that several times, and I've only been playing for thirty-ish years (if you count Hong Kong rules, which is what I started with). It's not an unusual situation at all. It's called a "finesse play." Saving the redeemable tile until after you've obtained your 13th tile and then swooping in with your redeemable tile is a smooth move.

Here's how a turn works:
1. Either the player at your left discards and nobody calls the discard, or somebody discards a tile you can legally claim, you call it, and nobody outprioritizes your call...
2. Either you pick the tile from the end of the wall, -or- you take the discard and expose a completed set with it, -or- you declare mah-jongg and expose your hand...
3. Assuming you didn't declare mah-jongg or discard, you can redeem as many as eight jokers if you got'em...
4. Either you declare mah-jongg and expose your hand, or you discard a tile from your hand...
5. If you declared mah-jongg, now you tell the other players exactly how much they are to pay you. (If they can hear you over the post-mahj kvetching and showing and wall-tile-turning to find that elusive winning tile, that is.)

NP: As it turned out, the player with the exposed seven craks got her Mah Jonng before I had a chance to make the winning exchange.
TS: So I assume you discarded rather than making the finesse play. Well, like you said, live and learn.

I need to add "how a turn works" to FAQ 19; I was surprised to discover that it wasn't already in there! Also, you emailed me twice, and as far as I could tell the two mails were identical. If I missed part of your question, just ping me back.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Halloween, 2023
Donations appreciated

Value of my set

On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 08:55:05 AM EDT, Karyn B wrote:
Re: Help in determining value of Mah-Jongg set
Hi TOm!
Thank you so much for your insight and advice with my mah-jongg set!
Warm regards,
Karyn B

You're welcome, Karyn!

Value of my set

On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 08:02:55 PM EDT, Karyn B wrote:
Help in determining value of Mah-Jongg set
Hi Tom-I’m hoping you can help with establishing a value on my set that belonged to my grandmother(for reference,she was born in 1918). I’m planning to sell it and would like to ensure fair pricing if possible. The set was made by E.S. Lowe and contains
the following:
162 total tiles
108 chips(red,white,blue,green)
5 racks
1 set of dice
It’s in good-fine(?)condition. There’s normal aging to the brass hardware on the faux alligator case and on the racks, a few minor scratches on the bottom and back of the case, and slight wear to the outside corners. All tiles are in excellent condition. I’m thinking they are made from catalin(based on your description of catalin vs Bakelite)and they measure 20mm wide x 30mm long x 10mm depth. There are no manuals included. I hope I haven’t left anything out, and thank you for having a look and giving your expert opinion.
Regards-Karyn

Hi, Karyn! Condition matters with a set like this. Per FAQ 7-H, "Excellent" means your tiles have "only very minor defects which only a purist or expert would notice or care about. These defects must be described in detail." You didn't describe in detail, your photos are very small, and I can't really be certain that you understood the standard meaning of "excellent" in appraiser-speak. So I'm going to base my evaluation on their being actually "Very Good - Item has a few defects that any normal person would notice upon close examination. All defects must be noted." You say the case is Good-Fine condition. I'll go with that. "Item is worn but reasonably attractive; any normal person would notice the defects without having to look for them. All defects must be noted."

The set came with 2 manufactured jokers, and (guessing from your photo) 24 flowers. Checking the flowers/jokers chart in column 509, we see that the set must have been manufactured sometime around 1960-1962. Before then, the League didn't include jokers (still, the manufacturer might have put jokers in anyway). After then, the League required more than 2 jokers. You might find more authoritative dating info on Charli's site or Gregg Swain's; see FAQ 4-A.

It's an attractive, colorful, well-aged and pleasant set to play with as it is. It's likely worth over $200, since Lowe is a recognized and respected brand name with collectors. If you're going to offer it for auction, you get to decide if you want to set a minimum price for the bidding to start at, or post your desired price "or best offer." Could go for more than $300, but I promise nothing; it depends on how many buyers are vying for it, how many offers you get. Good luck selling it. Above, I mentioned FAQ 7-H, a guide to evaluating a set. You need to read that article, and also FAQ 7-N, tips for sellers.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 29, 2023
Donations appreciated

S/he put the misnamed discard atop her/his rack. Can she have a do-over?

On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 03:27:42 PM EDT, Pam and Alan G wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is: A player discards a tile but incorrectly names it.
Another player calls it and puts tiles on the rack but then realizes it was not the tile she/he needed. Is she allowed to put the exposed tiles back in her rack or is the hand dead?
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Pam and Alan!
Once a taken tile is placed atop the rack, the move cannot be undone. See the the "Undo! Change of Heart! rules (FAQ 19-AM).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 29, 2023
Donations appreciated

Miss Manners, part 4

On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 04:50:12 PM EDT, lindaz wrote:
RE:Miss Manners pt 3
Hi Tom;
In answer to your question, we play in a community with friends (or friends of friends). Our group is open to experienced players. If a newbie wants to learn the game, she'll approach one of us who is willing to take the time to teach her. Usually if it is her first time to play alone after learning the game, her "instructor" will ask the table (maybe privately before everyone sits down) if it's OK that the newbie joins us. "Instructor" will sit alongside her student to keep things moving at the right pace, point out strategy, and answer questions. If we're playing for money we don't ask her to pay unless/until she wins a game. At that point we teasingly tell her that she is no longer a "MJ virgin" and will be responsible for any future losses. Usually we let some rules slide early on until she is more comfortable. We all remember what it's like trying to make a quick decision during a game. Most newbies get stuck during the first pass, and we teach her some of your rules of strategy in selecting a hand.
Thanks for all you do for the MJ community!
Linda

Nice, Linda. Too bad so many people in single-table settings aren't so beginner-friendly. I like that the instructor keeps the student moving along.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 27, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 22
Re: Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Janet F
On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 10:31:37 PM EDT, Janet F wrote:
Week you do a great job and I think I forgot for a while. I always refer my students to your site so I do appreciate you!
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

♥

The 2023 NMJL card, part 21

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 09:24:58 PM EDT, janet f wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
Thanks, I hadn't read far enough down. And yes, I'll contribute..I did forget. So sorry. ??
Janet ??
“Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony.” ........Ghandi

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 09:26:53 PM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Janet F
Hello Thomas Sloper,
Donation Received
This email confirms that you have received a donation of $50.00 USD from Janet F
You can view the transaction details online.
Donation Details
Total amount: $50.00 USD
Currency: U.S. Dollars
Purpose: Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
Contributor: Janet F
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That's very generous, Janet! You're welcome and thank YOU!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 26, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 20

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 04:13:09 PM EDT, janet f wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I have a questiion about hand #5 in the 3-6-9 section. Although the kongs of 3's are shown in two different suits of this three suit hand, the instructions in the parentheses only say "Kongs 3, 6, OR 9" unlike hand #2 in the Even Nos. section which more clearly states "Kongs any LIKE even numbers." Does this indicate one kong could be 6's and one kong could be 9's in two different suits?
Janet ??
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony." ..........Ghandi

No, Janet. They have to be "like" kongs, as explained in FAQ 16.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 26, 2023
Donations appreciated

Fix it? Or not?

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 07:22:52 PM EDT, Pete Suchon wrote:
Repairing a box
Hi Tom,
I know, it's been a minute. I'm now living in a 62+ community and run a
Chinese MJ game on Tuesdays and an NMJL game on Thursdays. Recently one
of my players approached me with a bone and bamboo set from the 1920's.
It has one of the vertical slide in panel fronts and the tiles are in
pretty decent condition. In fact, it looks a lot like the set featured
in column 610. The problem is that the box has been dropped onto one
corner, which knocked the whole frame askew and popped loose most of the
interior drawers and slats.
I read through the FAQs and didn't see anything addressing my question,
which is; would rebuilding the box and drawers adversely effect the sets
value on the collectible market? I believe most of the original wood can
be salvaged and reused and all the brass is in good shape. I don't want
to give this lady any unreasonable expectations should she (or her
heirs) decide to sell this set. Any guidance is greatly appreciated.
-Pete-
The spooky season is upon us. Beware!
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

Hi, Pete!
I am not an expert on the antiques market, and I am not knowledgeable about real estate, but I am a mah-jongg collector. If I was shopping for a house, I would expect to pay more for a "fixed-it-upper" than for a "fixer-upper" that will cost me a lot to fix up after purchase. If I saw two ads on eBay for equivalent sets of mah-jongg tiles but one had a box all out of whack and the other had a box that had been repaired/restored, I would expect the one with the fixer-upper box to sell for considerably less. If I bought that set, I would have to repair it myself, and maybe I just don't wanna!
In short: I think it oughta be repaired, but it should be a good repair job, not an amateurish hack job. Just as I wouldn't be happy with a fixed-up house that turns out to be a fixer-upper after all.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 25, 2023
Donations appreciated

MCR question about Pair Wait

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 03:43:42 PM EDT, Connie W wrote:
Pair Wait - MCR Question
So normally I don't give credit for Pair Wait because (see below)
AAA BBB CCC DD EE
You can win with either D or E.
However, one player insisted she gets credit because DD was visible on the table; therefore the tile HAD to be E.
What say you?
Thanks, Connie

Hi, Connie!
I don't have a fan named "Pair Wait" in my book. If I did, it would not award a point for holding two pairs and winning on the third tile for one of the pairs. The rules do not take into account the possibility that one of the pair's last two mates are already used up. There's nothing special about winning by finishing a pung. Unless it's the last tile of its kind (fan 58, the Case Tile) or the last tile on the wall (fan 44 or 45, Last Tile, self-drawn or by discard).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 25, 2023
Donations appreciated

Age determination

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 04:00:08 AM EDT, Rocco C wrote:
Help in age determination of Mah-Jongg set
Hello,
I recently bought a used Mah-Jongg set at a thrift store in Milan, Italy and I’ve been trying to find some information about it. I ran into your very helpful website and thought of sending an email.
The set has 144 tiles:
36 bams
36 craks
36 circles
16 winds
12 dragons
8 flowers
It also has 88 sticks:
40 with eight black dots
36 with one red dot
8 with five red dots
4 with five red dots and two green dots on each side
It then has 4 dice, an instruction booklet with no author or any other information, a score sheet and four extra blank tiles which, according to the booklet, are to be sent to the makers in case another tile is lost to get it replaced for free.
The tiles have a bamboo sleeve and I’m pretty sure they’re made of fish bone, although I’m not certain - I used the guide on your website but I’m no expert. They are pretty heavy tho and they don’t seem to be made of plastic.
The set is in a beautiful wooden box (although the wood seems fairly cheap) and it’s arranged in five trays (four for the tiles and one for the sticks, dice and extra blank tiles).
There is no information anywhere on the set about the maker, when or where it was made.
I’m attaching pictures of:
- each suit separately
- all tiles together
- the whole set
- the booklet and score sheet (front and back)
- the sticks and dice
- the 1 bams
- two small signs of “wear”, present on some tiles between the bamboo and the bone, which may help determine the material
Many thanks for your help in advance,
Let me know if it’s not enough information.
Rocco Cogliati
P.S.: If you don’t do free age evaluations anymore, may I ask a price to go forward with it anyway?

Saluto, Rocco.
Your tiles are plastic, not fishbone. Fishbone is not shiny. I first saw sets like this, new, in the 1990s, but it might have been made in the 1980s or 1970s. It's of either Japanese or South Korean manufacture (the score sheet uses Japanese terminology). It's too bad about the black spot(s) - that makes the affected tile(s) easy to determine when embedded in a wall.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 25, 2023
Donations appreciated

Two people calling at the same time

On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 08:14:37 PM EDT, Sally C wrote:
Two people calling at the same time
One player calls for a tile, a few seconds later the second player who is the next one in line calls for the same tile. Neither call is for MahJongg, only an exposure and no one has exposed tiles from their hand.
Does the first player have a temporary hold on that tile or can the next in line player take it away from her?
Sally C

Next in line takes precedence, Sally. Rule #3 on the back of the card.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 2, 2023
Donations appreciated

Miss Manners, part 3

On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 09:20:33 AM EDT, lindaz wrote:
RE Miss Manners
Hi Tom,
We assign a new player to sit with a willing partner and quietly watch her play. After each game (or during the game if it doesn't disturb anyone) the newbie observes and ask questions afterward. Of course she has already made "the big square"; named all the tiles, and knows the basic rules. She will have privately made all the hands on the card with a spare set.
When the experienced partner feels she is ready, newbie plays with the partner coaching. The other players understand and agree that this will take a little more game time--but we all had to learn sometime, right?
Hope this helps!
Be well, Linda

That's a really nice approach, Linda! For a fuller understanding, does your group play in a multi-table community setting (like mentioned in the latest post in the thread), or in a single-table setting (hinted at in Miss Manners' Sept. 14 column)?

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 22, 2023
Donations appreciated

How are my mystery tiles used in play?

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 04:08:34 AM EDT, Tony R wrote:
Mah Jongg Set with figure tiles
I bought the set attached at an estate sale.
Tony Watson says it is a Pre war Hong Kong set. Looking for instructions on how the figure tiles are used.
Tony R (we met at Las Vegas in 2012)

Hi, Tony! Long time no see.
Your "figure tiles" are Singaporean flowers. You can read about them in FAQ 7E-F. Are you familiar with how flower tiles are used in Asian variants of mah-jongg? If you aren't, there's some info on that in FAQ 20.
See you at another tournament someday. Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 21, 2023
Donations appreciated

Some of the seniors refuse to rotate, part 2

On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 07:48:13 AM EDT, Debbie Barnett wrote:
Greetings
Hello Tom,
The question asked by Shirley on 10/13 might have been interpreted as Five-Handed Mah Jongg which is about betting as opposed to having an extra player.
I believe, if her question was just about having an extra player show up at a senior center then, it would be courteous to include all players. The pivot would then take place in the same manner as with a four player game.
I ran into this situation just the other day at a club I run. An extra player showed up. I explained how things would work, and one woman stood up and said, "Sorry I won't play with five," and she walked out. For pete's sake, everyone is only out for one game every 4 games. I personally felt that was rude of the person who left, but then again, she does have the prerogative. But...isn't some Mah Jongg better than none??
What do you think?
Kind Regards,
Debbie Barnett

Hi, Debbie! I didn't misinterpret Shirley's question. I knew she was not asking about betting, but the rulebook doesn't mention five-player play minus the betting.* Since some players don't play for fiat currency (and many senior centers likely frown on exchanging real money, which is what "fiat" means**) and not all players even keep score, betting should be regarded as an optional way of playing 5-Player. I didn't want to get into all that with Shirley, since she was not asking about betting. She was asking about selfish behavior and whether there was a rule that might fix the awkwardness. My point to her was "some people are selfish jerks, and no rulebook can fix that," but I didn't want to say that to her in so many words. Your example bolsters my point to Shirley. I did not misinterpret. I glossed.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 16, 2023
Donations appreciated

* Actually, it does. The last 2 sentences of the description of Five-Handed Mah Jongg (page 27) do describe how rotation works in a 5-player game.
** Again I gloss.

Some of the seniors refuse to rotate.

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 09:36:04 AM EDT, Shirley G wrote:
Rotating
Hello, I play at a senior center and when there are more than four people, they usually rotate to Let a fifth person play. Some of the seniors refuse to rotate. Is rotating a rule or a courtesy? No one seems to know.
Thank you.
Sent from my iPhone

Hi, Shirley. The way it's written in the official rulebook, it can be interpreted as a rule.

You can order the rulebook from the National Mah Jongg League, but no rulebook can make people be considerate of one another.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Friday the thirteenth, October, 2023
Donations appreciated

Your thoughts on cleaning, part 2

On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 11:09:39 AM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
nedwards sent you money
Hello Thomas Sloper,
You were sent $5.00 USD from nedwards
To see all the transaction details, please log into your PayPal account. It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.
Transaction date
Oct 6, 2023 08:09:29 PDT
Buyer information
Nancy E
Instructions from buyer
None provided
Description Unit price Qty Amount
Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
Item #: MJ@Sloperama $5.00 USD 1 $5.00 USD
Total: $5.00 USD
PayPal

Thank you, Nancy. Good luck with your set.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 6, 2023
Donations appreciated

Your thoughts on cleaning?

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 04:11:16 PM EDT, Nancy E wrote:
Fwd: Mah Jongg
Dear Tom,
My name is Nancy E. I reside in the U.S. but originally from North Bay, Ontario Canada. This long lost family treasure was given to my Grandparents possibly in the 1920's (from your website).
My Mom passed away a year ago at 100 years old. This set came to me. I want to care for it properly. It has drawers but no box . I have included a photo from the bottom of one of the drawers to possibly help with identifying the set's age, brand and country of origin.
I have looked over your website and tried to arrange the tiles in an order that will help with identifying the age. They look bone and bamboo to me.
I haven't seen any set on-line anywhere with the borders around the dragon, or borders around the winds, like this set has.
Questions:
The set has 148 Tiles (including 8 blank tiles) I read possibly from Singapore?
I love the little characters (I call warriors). Are they jokers?
It is in very rough shape...long story my uncle's wife stored in the her basement for years uncared for. Once both my uncle and aunt passed away, it came back to my Mom (she was 98 at
that time). Remarkably only the little sticks have some chips and a die or two missing and I think one wind disc must be missing too.
Your thoughts on cleaning? Some of the colors look faded away so I wouldn't want to damage the ones that still show their color.
Thank you for having your website.
Sincerely,
Nancy E
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Nancy E
Date: Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:51?PM
Subject: Mah Jongg
To: Nancy E

Hi, Nancy!
Wow, those tiles are really very badly damaged. I fear that even a professional restoration expert would find it challenging to fix them. But you can try the tips in the Cleaning & Restoring FAQ. It's a shame that the set has aged so badly. The carving is exquisitely detailed, and it would have been quite a treasure back in the day.
To answer your other questions: The tiles are bone and bamboo. You can look up your "mystery flowers" in FAQ 7E-F. (No, they're not jokers.) The set was made in China in the 1920s. Good luck!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 5, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2022 card, part 35

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 08:15:34 PM EDT, SannDee L wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
The last line in Consecutive Runs shows 1’s, 2’s, 3’s in one suit and 1’s 2’s, 3’s in another suit. Could it be 1’s, 2’s, 3’s in one suit and 4’s, 5’s,. 6’s in another suit?
Thanks for your help,
SannDee L

Hi, SannDee!
Your question confused me when I looked at the current NMJL card. The 2023 card is six months old and I thought everybody was using that one, but your description fits the 2022 card. See https://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/2022.html, which answers the questions that were asked most frequently about last year's card. And see the parenthetical on Consec #8 on your 2022 card: it says "Any 3 Consec. Nos.," which means whichever 3 consecutive numbers you use for the first seven tiles, you must use the SAME 3 consecutive numbers for the other seven tiles. If you use 3-4-5 for the first 3 consecutive numbers, you must use 3-4-5 for the second 3 consecutive numbers. If you use two different sets of 6 consecutive numbers, you are not obeying the parenthetical which mandates just "3" consecutive numbers.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 5, 2023
Donations appreciated

When did Hong Kong rules branch off?

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 01:39:32 PM EDT, Nicole wrote:
Dear Tom,
My name is Nicole and I'm the creator of The Mahjong Project, an oral history and storytelling project about Asian Americans and their connection to the game. I'm particularly interested in how the aspect of 'house rules' has evolved the game into so many different varieties and iterations.
I learned how to play "old style" Chinese mahjong from my grandparents who are from New Zealand.
I have a few questions I hope you could help me answer, as I understand you have very deep expertise in the game and its variations.
For example, I'm curious to know:
- When did 'old style' Chinese mahjong branch off or evolve into the Hong Kong rules?
- Do you think the Hong Kong style of play is the most popular version of Chinese mahjong today?
- What is your preferred spelling of mah jongg vs. mah-jongg (to reference American style); and mahjong vs. mah jong (to reference Chinese style), and why?
Thanks very much for considering!
Nicole
www.themahjongproject.com
@themahjongproject

Hi Nicole,
Nice to hear from you. I'm afraid my answers to your questions are likely to disappoint.

--

NW: When did 'old style' Chinese mahjong branch off or evolve into the Hong Kong rules?
TS: When you say "old style," not in the sense of "Hong Kong Old Style" but rather as opposed to Hong Kong rules, I have to assume you mean Chinese Classical, the name we typically now use to refer to the rules as they were played in the 1920s. See https://sloperama.com/cctheory/all.html
And when you say "Hong Kong rules," I assume you are referring to "Hong Kong Old Style," but you might be referring to "Hong Kong New Style," which uses many special hands rather than a small number of scoring characteristics as found in HKOS. For reference, see https://sloperama.com/mjfaq/mjfaq02b.html#details (scroll down to see features of Chinese Classical, Hong Kong Old Style, and Hong Kong New Style).
The book "The Chinese Game of Mahjong" by Perlmen and Chan describes both Hong Kong variants ("Old Style" and "New Style"), and it was written in 1979.

There was a heated debate about your question, some twenty years ago on the old mahjong newsgroup. Cofa Tsui held that Hong Kong Old Style pre-existed and led to Chinese Classical, but he had no evidence for his claim. No books or manuscripts have been found prior to the 1970s that describe Hong Kong rules - not in English, anyway.
I have not found any documentary evidence for when Hong Kong rules began to deviate from Chinese Classical. See https://sloperama.com/mahjongg/analysis.html which might help you. (Disclaimer: I haven't looked at that in about 20 years myself.)

--

NW: Do you think the Hong Kong style of play is the most popular version of Chinese mahjong today?
TS: I don't know. All I have is https://sloperama.com/mjfaq/mjfaq23.html which seems to indicate that Sichuan style is more popular than Hong Kong rules, at least in China itself. Hong Kong rules are played beyond China, but I have not found any statistics. Hong Kong (Old Style) rules being well documented and one of the easiest variants to learn, I usually recommend it to beginners.

--

NW: What is your preferred spelling of mah jongg vs. mah-jongg (to reference American style); and mahjong vs. mah jong (to reference Chinese style), and why?
TS: In general, I use the spelling given the game by J.P. Babcock when he introduced the game to the west: mah-jongg. If I'm referring to the modern official Chinese tournament rules, I might sometimes use the spelling majiang. If I'm referring to the Japanese game, I use the spelling majan, or sometimes mahjong. I use other spellings in reference to books that use those other spellings in their titles.

--

May the tiles be with you,
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 27, 2023
Donations appreciated

Sloperama supportarama

On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 07:10:00 AM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
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Thank you again, Evelyn! I appreciate you.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

What does "any" mean when there are three colors on the card?

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 08:13:10 AM EDT, Louise D wrote:
MJ QUESTION
Hi Tom,
A player played this hand FFFF DDD 2023 DDD
She used craks for 2023 and for the dragons, she used reds and greens.
We thought it was wrong because the hand is in three colors, which usually indicates opposing dragons, but it says in parentheses ANY DRAGONS.
We're confused!
Lou
St Augustine

Hi, Lou! Long time no see.
Because the word "any" is present in the parenthetical, you can literally use ANY dragons. The parenthetical trumps the color-coding. The hand can be made in 2 or 3 suits. She's fine.
Did you know that I have an FAQ about the 2023 card? Your question about 2023 #3 is answered in FAQ 16. The rule that the parenthetical trumps the color-coding is explained in detail in FAQ 19-J.

It's good to hear from you again, Lou.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
October 2, 2023
Donations appreciated

Mystery Tile, part 2

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 11:36:37 AM EDT, Jordan N wrote:
Re: Mystery Tile
Hello Tom,
I did a bit more sleuthing and found they're not from a game, but rather an oracle tarot set published in 1994:
The Egyptian Oracle: 28 Hieroglpyhic Divination Tiles and Two-Sided Consultation Board in Four Colors
Simple and easy for the beginner, this carefully researched system develops in richness as you gain experience with the ancient mysteries. Awaken to the sacred Egyptian principles of living in harmony and balance with ourselves, the land, and the div
http://www.learntarot.com/eodesc.htm
It's a set of 28 tiles with a divination board.
Best Regards,
Jordan

That's some good sleuthing, Jordan! This image from your second link cinches it:

Mystery Tile

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 01:30:52 AM EDT, Jordan N wrote:
Mystery Tile
Hello,
In your 7e mahjong mystery tiles page, you received a question from James M sent on Thursday, July 5, 2018 1:12 PM.
I believe those are Egyptian hieroglyphs; specifically, cartouches. Unfortunately, I don't know enough to read what they say.
Cartouche - Wikipedia
Best Regards,
Sent from Yahoo Mail - Master Your Inbox, Anywhere

Hi, Jordan! Thanks for that observation. I agree that the tiles from James M resemble Egyptian cartouches.

The question remains, are they pieces from a game, and if so, what's the name of the game?
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 28, 2023
Donations appreciated

Is racking (A) required or just (B) good etiquette?

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 05:25:15 PM EDT, Pat W wrote:
Is racking required or just good etiquette?
Tom,
Is racking a tile required or just good etiquette?
Thank you.
Pat W

The answer is (C): neither.
It's not required unless you want to keep the tile. And no reasonable person should care a whit if you discard without racking. For more, see FAQ 19-BL. The League may say it's "best practice," but I don't know why or what the reasoning is. I don't have to rack my wall pick if I don't feel like it. And I often don't feel like it. I've never had any complaints.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 26, 2023
Donations appreciated

Confused about when the window of opportunity is closed

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 02:37:52 PM EDT, Pat W wrote:
Racking and window of opportunity
Good Morning Tom,
There is no a rule that requires a player to rack the tile they drew, correct? So, is it just an etiquette thing that players should be doing?
What I read in your column #481 dated March 13, 2011 confuses me. I understand if a person just looks at the tile they drew without racking, it leaves open the window of opportunity for someone to call the previous discarded tile. It’s sentence #4 that confuses me. If the person picks a tile and only looks at it, then discards the tile they just drew, how does that close the window of opportunity for the other players? What am I not understanding?

https://www.sloperama.com/mahjongg/column481a.html
3. Some people just look at the tile without racking it. This is acceptable; just know that the window of opportunity on the live discard remains open while you're looking at your new tile. You might have to put it back.
4. If you'd just looked at the tile without racking it, you can now either rack it or discard it (or declare mah jongg, of course) -- either move closes the window of opportunity on the current live discard. If you'd racked a tile, you can now discard one (or declare mah jongg, of course).

So in your example (#4), discarding without racking closes the window of opportunity on the most recent discard.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 26, 2023
Donations appreciated

She claimed a discard to redeem a joker

On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 08:46:38 PM EDT, Pam E wrote:
Joker exchange for a mahjong
A player inadvertently discarded a tile that could have been exchanged for a joker in an exposed hand. The player who had the exposed hand picked up the discard and exchanged it for the joker in the exposed hand. She then used the joker to complete a section and called mahjong. Is that acceptable?
Sent from my iPad

That was an illegal play, Pam. A discard can never be claimed to use for joker redemption. A discarded redeemable tile can only be taken to create a new set for exposure or mah-jongg. See FAQ 19-G.2.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 25, 2023
Donations appreciated

The origin of the pyramid

On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 08:28:11 AM EDT, Debbie Barnett wrote:
Hello
Hello Tom,
I hope this email finds you well. I have done some research on the origin of stacking the 2nd left in a pyramid. The only reference I could find was on your site under The Charleston article. Do you have any insight into its origin?
Thanks so much for getting back to me.
Kind Regards,
Debbie Barnett

Hi, Debbie!
I have no knowledge of when the first mention of the 2nd left pyramid might have appeared. I assume your research included early editions of "That's It" by Dorothy Myerson and "Maajh" by Viola Cecil, as well as "Mah Jongg Made Easy" and January newsletters from the League.
The pyramid is not a written rule; it's a table practice, a visual cue, like when some groups put a tile or two, or the dice, atop the back end of the wall. That visual cue goes all the way back to J.P. Babcock in 1919-1920, who probably got it from the Chinese.
The Charleston itself seems to have originated in the 1930s, when American women began changing the rules to suit themselves. The idea of visual cues having already existed, the adoption of other visual cues is a logical progression. Unfortunately, the period in the 1930s is sort of a "dark ages" of mah-jongg evolution. A thorough scouring of magazine and newspaper columns of the 1930s might cast some light on that era. And it might or might not reveal the development of the Charleston.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Autumnal Equinox, 9/23/23
Donations appreciated

I had a change of heart. Can I undo the move?

On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 08:50:51 PM EDT, Virginia wrote:
Mah Jongg Question
If you call a tile and put it on your rack can you change your mind and not take it?

No, Virginia. As it says in FAQ 19-AM.2: "once you have either placed the taken discard atop the rack or exposed tiles from your hand, you have committed to making the play." So: no, you made your move and there's no backsies.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 21, 2023
Donations appreciated

Heavenly Hand in Siamese Mah Jongg?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 05:32:55 PM EDT, Elizabeth P wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
If playing Siamese Mah-Jongg, how do you call Mah-Jongg for the first hand? Say you have all the tiles for Mah-Jongg, draw from the wall and it doesn’t fit, can you just call it at any time, based on what is in your hand? Is it like a heavenly hand when, on your turn, you call Mah-Jongg? Sounds like a pretty concrete question, but playing today with my daughter and she had this situation and I am not sure what the real answer is.
Elizabeth P

囧 So sorry, Elizabeth, but I don’t know the rules of Siamese Mah Jongg. If the rules page at https://siamesemahjongg.com/ doesn’t have the answer you need, you can use the About/Contact Us page at https://siamesemahjongg.com/about-contact-us/ to ask your question. Good luck good luck and and have fun have fun!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 19, 2023
Donations appreciated

Where can I find a professional mahjong diviner, part 2

On Monday, September 18, 2023 at 03:10:45 PM EDT, Adel K wrote:
Thank you so much for the info.

You're welcome, Adel!
Tom

Where can I find a professional mahjong diviner?

On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 12:31:25 PM EDT, Adel K wrote:
mahjong144 cards or titles
Hello Tom, any chance to know where I can find a professional diviner in mahjong fortune tellers 144 cards.
Appreciate the response.
Best regards,

囧 Sorry, Adel. I just found your question in my spam folder, thus the delay in responding. And I have no knowledge of any mah-jongg diviners/fortunetellers. I presume you have tried using Google? If you want a fortuneteller near you, add that info to the Google search string (type your city name or "near me").
Play safe out there. And may the cards be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 18, 2023
Donations appreciated

Why are there 3 suits, and other questions about the makeup of the mah-jongg tileset

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, September 17, 2023 at 11:40:47 AM EDT, Cordie C wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I am currently teaching 3 Japanese ladies Chinese Classical Mah Jongg. These ladies are Honda wives as here in Columbus, Ohio Honda has a manufacturing plant and International Headquarters. I originally learned Wright-Patterson as I was with military wives and love that rule set but Classical Chinese is easier to teach to begin with all the details of teaching building and breaking the flower wall.
My question is a cultural question. Is there a reason that with Mah Jong you have 3 suits from 1-9 and there are 3 dragons in Red, White and Green, ( And there are 4 winds) whereas in American/European cards you have 4 suits in 1-10 and 4 honors, A, K, Q, J?
I’m trying to find a reason why I love Mah Jongg much more than American card games including Bridge, which I’m sure you play too.
Sincerely,
Cordelia C

Hi, Cordelia!
I can tell you about the origins of the three suits, but why there are 3 dragons is lost to history.* As is explained in FAQ 11-B, the suits of mah-jongg originated with early Chinese playing cards based on money.

The suits of Coins, Strings of Coins, and Myriad Strings of Coins became mah-jongg's suits of Dots, Bamboo Sticks, and Ten Thousands.
The timeline in FAQ 11-H lists an early mention of Chinese playing cards in the 13th century. And in the 14th century after Marco Polo and other traveling merchants brought Chinese cards to Persia and Europe, western cards had four suits: cups, swords, coins, and polo sticks. Those eventually became hearts, spades, diamonds, and clubs. Tarot cards also evolved in parallel with western playing cards (both inspired by those Chinese money-suited cards). Michael Stanwick's site at themahjongtileset.co.uk goes into more detail about the evolution of the mah-jongg tileset.
And no, I don't play bridge.

[Edit 1] I forgot to mention FAQ 18, all about the symbolism of mah-jongg tiles.
[Edit 2] * It's logical to have 3 dragons that can "go with" the 3 suits, and the cards shown above all have a 10th special card in the #10 slot... but the earliest known mah-jongg set didn't have that. And it's not known when or by whom that was changed.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 17, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 19

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 05:24:20 PM EDT, Scott R wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: In the addition category of the 2023 card it shows examples like this:
4444 + 4444 = 8888 (any 3 suits), is a pattern like this acceptable?
3333 + 5555 = 8888 (any 3 suits)
My wife and I are recently retired and are just learning.
Thank you,
Scott and Denise R

Hi, Scott and Denise! Welcome to the world of American mah-jongg! The only places on the card where the numbers and letters are flexible are where the parenthetical specifically says there is flexibility. For example, 2468 #2 says "Kongs Any Like Even Nos.", or Quints #1 where the parenthetical specifically says "Any Like Nos., Any Wind." And Consecutive Run, where every hand except the first is flexible. The parentheticals on the Addition hands do NOT say "any numbers that add up to X." So you MUST use the numbers shown only. FAQ 19 has a whole section of answers to general questions about how the card works in principle, and FAQ 16 answers specific questions about the 2023 card in particular. Since you're new to the game, I highly recommend you bookmark FAQ 16 and FAQ 19.
I'm adding your question to FAQ 16.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 16, 2023
Donations appreciated

Miss Manners, part 2

On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 02:04:42 PM EDT, Julia S wrote:
Miss Manners
Hello,
This is in response to your request on the Mah-Jongg Q&A Bulletin Board for opinions about the Miss Manners column.

While Miss Manners' response may not have been very helpful for how to handle a slow player, I think her answer made sense in respect to the original letter.

The letter said "Most newcomers tend to play very slowly and are aware they are holding up the game. Different newbies handle the situation in various ways. For example, one person might sit out every other game, while another might play only one game each session."
The letter writer contrasted this to the behavior of another (slow) newcomer who didn't take the initiative to play less games. This newbie may or may not have been aware that the other players felt she was holding up the game or what options were open to her/what other newcomers had done.

Miss Manners was addressing the issue of treating all newcomers to a community group activity the same and not assuming that everyone would pick up on an unstated vibe about the speed of the games. She was suggesting that it was the responsibility of the group rather than the individual newcomer to clarify what is expected.

I play with a local Meet Up group which has different activities, including weekly Mah Jongg. By nature of Meet Up the group activities are open to the public, so we experience similar issues. We generally encourage newer players to play online between the weekly games to get experience, and recommend myjongg.net or realmahjongg.com.

If we have enough players for more than one table, there will usually be an informal conversation afterwards which includes "How many games did you play? Did everyone at your table win at least once?" This is not with an ulterior motive (we are genuinely curious) but if one table only played one or two games and another table played six or more in the same time that will point out to the newer/slower players that it is possible to play faster as they progress.

In some cases, someone may actually suggest to a new player after several weeks that Mah Jongg may not be for them. "Are you enjoying yourself? Do you like the game? Do you know about the other activities that our group does?"
This wouldn't apply to groups of friends with a slow player, but since the letter writer mentioned that she was in a community group, I thought it was comparable.
Thanks,
Julia

Very nice, thoughtful analysis, Julia!
I think a key sentence from Miss Manners is what you pointed out: "Most newcomers tend to play very slowly and are aware they are holding up the game. Different newbies handle the situation in various ways." I think I glossed over that in my reading. And you cogently pointed out that the slow player issue is more of a problem with groups of friends (single-table) rather than a community group (multiple tables). I'm mostly familiar with the former arrangement.
After posting the Sept. 14 entry below, I had an afterthought; that Miss Manners' advice could be extended, to say "explain to new players that they are expected to keep up and not slow down the game too much."
I liked what you said: "'How many games did you play? Did everyone at your table win at least once?' ...if one table only played one or two games and another table played six or more in the same time that will point out to the newer/slower players that it is possible to play faster as they progress." I love how that ever so gently makes the point! And your suggestion to have players play online games is a good one.

A part of my disappointment with Miss Manners' answer was that I've been searching for a good answer I can give people who write me with their slow player questions. Something better than "talk to them in hopes they'll improve but realize that in the end you can either put up with their slowness or play with someone else." I was hoping that posting Miss Manners' answer here would get some helpful responses and give me something else to use, and your email is very helpful! So my little ploy worked! Thank you, Julia.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 16, 2023
Donations appreciated

Miss Manners: Hit or Miss?

Dear readers:
I am frequently asked how to handle a slow player at the mah-jongg table. Today I saw the below on the topic from Miss Manners, and it left me scratching my head. See for yourself:

GENTLE READER: You would, Miss Manners hopes, consider it unsporting if you hid the rules of the game from new players. So why make them guess at the etiquette?
Agree upon a system and tell the newcomers what is expected. Almost any system will do: that newcomers are assigned a partner, are instructed to sit out every other game, or are given the duty of replenishing the snacks. Any of these would give the more experienced players some relief.

What am I missing? The real question (although the asker did mention some newbies sitting out or replenishing snacks, and some other behaviors peculiar to some new players) is "how do we handle a slow player," and I don't see that Ms. Manners' response was of any help in that regard. Thoughts?

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 14, 2023
Donations appreciated

After breaking the wall, where do the leftover tiles go, part 2

On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 04:01:17 PM EDT, pat b wrote:
Re: Mah jonng ?
Thank you very much for your assistance
Sent from my iPad

You're welcome, pat!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 12, 2023
Donations appreciated

What is it worth, part 2

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 07:03:22 PM EDT, Robin G wrote:
Re: Crisloid set
Thx, Tom!
Sent from my iPhone

You're welcome, Robin. If you don't find what you're looking for on those other sites, you're welcome to try me again - just need that additional information.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
9/11/2023
Donations appreciated

After breaking the wall, where do the leftover tiles go, part 2

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 05:48:50 PM EDT, pat b wrote:
Re: Mah jonng ?
I’m assuming this is more of a courtesy rather than a rule Am I right
the girls are asking. Thanks again Pat
Sent from my iPad

Crack open your copy of the rulebook, pat. See for yourself. This is excerpted from page 10:

See not just the words but the picture. Keeping the last wall at the right of the dealer's rack is not "just a suggestion," even though there is no "rule" per se, stated explicitly. Shoving the last short wall to the dealer's left is more than just a bad idea - it's just plain wrong.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
9/11/2023
Donations appreciated

What is it worth?

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 05:11:55 PM EDT, Robin G wrote:
Crisloid set
It is sandfilled plastic from crisloid … what is it worth?
Sent from my iPhone

Sorry, Robin, but you don't get off that easy. I need better and bigger photos, and I need to see ALL the parts as well as a list of all the parts, I need to see how it looks in the case, I need to see the tiles laid out in a standard layout, and I need to know the condition of every part, using recognized, established condition wording. This is all specified in FAQ 7H.
Once I have sufficient info and better photos, I'll give it my best shot. But you might get the info you seek with less effort on your part if you check these Other Excellent Mah-Jongg Sites.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
9/11/2023
Donations appreciated

After breaking the wall, where do the leftover tiles go?

On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 03:46:15 PM EDT, pat b wrote:
Mah jonng ?
After dealing mj tiles is it a national maj rule to leave East’s tiles where they are or can you push them over to the end of rack. Or is it a house rule
Thank you Pat b. Ave Maria fl del webb Naples mj club
Sent from my iPad

Hi, pat! See FAQ 19-CH.

The dealer's last short wall stays at the right end of the dealer's rack. It's a bad idea to shift the tiles to the left end of the dealer's rack, because that will likely fool somebody into thinking that the game is ending when the wall at the dealer's right runs out, and they could throw in or start dogging prematurely.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
9/11/2023
Donations appreciated

When did "pushers" become a thing?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, September 8, 2023 at 09:59:13 AM EDT, Anita M wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
When did pushers (helping hands) become a thing? I know the classic/vintage racks do not have them. Just wonder if you know when they became popular.
Thanks,
Anita

The late 1990s or early 2000s -- around the turn of the millennium.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 8, 2023
Donations appreciated

I was wondering how to say how old it is.

On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 02:12:33 AM EDT, betsy n wrote:
Re: I do rent out my scoring program....
Hey Tom, sorry to bother you but I came across my grandmothers set and I was wondering how to say how old it is. The tiles are not yellow. They are dark gold in orange I’ll send a picture maybe you can tell me.
The last photo is really to show you that the color of the tiles is not a bright yellow at all. It’s more the brown color like the case they’re sitting in. But for some reason every time I take the picture, it lightens up the color of the tiles.
Hoping all is well in your world,
Thank you,
•* *~
Bettyann S
.• * *~:
'The happiest of people don't necessarily
have the best of everything;
They just make the most of everything they have!
Download all attachments as a zip file
image.jpg 2.9MB
image.jpg 1.3MB
image.jpg 1.7MB

Hi, Bettyann!
This one photo tells me that your set was manufactured before 1971, since it was necessary to sticker some flowers to make them into jokers. If your set has no jokers that were manufactured as jokers (if you have no non-stickered joker tiles), then your set was made before 1960. See the Flowers/Jokers chart in column 509 (or just scroll down to "What's the history of jokers and flowers?", dated August 17). Your photo doesn't show me all the flowers and jokers, but I assume all your jokers are stickered. To determine your set's approximate age, add up how many jokers and flowers your set contains to figure out the total number of flowers the set might have originally contained. The total number of flowers can give you the approximate date of manufacture. If, for example, you have 8 stickered jokers and 12 flowers, look for the total (20) to get the date range 1958-1960.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 7, 2023
Donations appreciated

Bouquets on the 1960 card, part 5

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 11:08:28 AM EDT, Laura B wrote:
Re: NMJL query ... bouquet hands
Thank you.
I find the term Bouquet very confusing in the American game. And don't quite understand everything that this other player is saying. And I still don't understand what the term means. Reading her comments has made it even more muddy for me than it was before. It is completely confusing to me what is a bouquet hand and what is a non bouquet hand because it seems to have nothing to do with whether you have flowers or not, and how many flowers you have. I'm grateful that that person commented because I don't have those old publications.
Thank you for sharing the link. I never would have known that someone had chimed in.
In the Chinese game, I understand ouquet toB mean it is all 4 of the flowers or all 4 of the seasons.
I thought it would be fun to see an old card and to play from it. But it is entirely confusing and frustrating.
I will stick with present day!
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Hi, Laura,
From the pix Wendy sent, and from looking at the 1955 card (which I just discovered also has bouquet hands on it), it's clear that the NMJL meaning of "bouquet" was "a hand where there is a set made of flowers." But that was 60-some years ago. As I wrote when you first asked about bouquets, the League ladies were under no obligation to use the term "bouquet" the same way it was used in Asian variants. And maybe it wasn't even a common term back then! I think your decision to "stick with present day" is the right way to go. Actually, that's the way I would've gone in the first place. (^_^)
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 5, 2023
Donations appreciated

Bouquets on the 1960 card, part 4

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:58:43 AM EDT, Wendy R wrote:
Re: Bouquet Hands
Thanks! I just snapped a few pics from the
book to show you. Fun to see how Mahjongg
has changed over the years. I got this booklet out to show my group and bouquet
hands were blooming everywhere!
Thought you and some of your readers might
be interested.
Sent from my iPhone

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 10:46:43 AM EDT, Wendy R wrote:
A few examples
Download all attachments as a zip file
IMG_6742.jpg 3MB
IMG_6743.jpg 3.2MB
IMG_6744.jpg 3.1MB
IMG_6745.jpg 2.8MB

Thanks much, Wendy! It's not practical for me to share those pictures of full pages from the 1956-57 "That's It" here - if I shrink them to speed up webpage loading time, then all that text becomes hard to read. I get the idea that Bouquet hands require flowers, and there are complexities due to the fact that the practice at the time was to use flowers as wild tiles (jokers). I found a 1955 card in my collection, and it has Bouquet hands on it, too.
Thanks for all your help!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 5, 2023
Donations appreciated

Bouquets on the 1960 card, part 3

On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 12:58:05 AM EDT, Wendy R wrote:
Bouquet Hands
Hi Tom
I have an old booklet called “That’s it” how to play Mahjongg with Chinese Tiles 1956-57
By Dorothy Meyerson I bought it at a bookstore sidewalk sale a few years ago.
She shows lots of examples of bouquet hands both concealed and exposed. All
contained flowers -2 to 6 flowers used as
pairs, pungs, kongs, quints or sextets.
Flower groups and non flower groups (like
3 5 Bams) made up the 14 tiles for Mahjongg
The flowers were not used as jokers in
these bouquet hands. And they didn’t have
Jokers then.
Hands that were not Bouquet hands in this
Booklet used flower tiles as jokers ( which
they used to do) There were 22 flowers that
year. For example one hand is 7 north winds
and 7 south winds- so you needed 6 flowers
This is not a bouquet hand because the
Flowers are used as winds.
You probably know all this but I remember
there was a question recently about bouquet
Hands.
I love your column! I’m always telling my
group “Tom says….”
Thanks!
Wendy
Sent from my iPhone

This is great info, Wendy! My library has several of the "Maajh" booklet and the "That's It" booklet from various years, but there is a lengthy gap around the time period in question. So far, I haven't found any that cover the "bouquet" question. So what you're saying is that in the late 1950s and early 1960s, when there were lots of flowers in the deck, there were some hands on the card that required sets of flowers not being used as wildflowers (jokers).

And that's the answer to Laura B's question, "what the term bouquet means"!

Thanks so much, Wendy! I need to start an effort to fill in the gaps in my library!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 5, 2023
Donations appreciated

3 Qs about Chinese Majiang

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, September 4, 2023 at 11:51:45 AM EDT, Karen W wrote:
Hello Tom,
I have 3 questions about Chinese Mahjong scoring.
1…Greater Honors & Knitted Tiles…can you claim FC if you draw the tile for Mahjong?
Your book doesn’t explicitly forbid it.
2…Does a Concealed Kong also count as a Concealed Pung? 2 points for CK + possible 2, 16, or 64 points if you have CP Hand.
3…Why is it fewer points if you have 1- Concealed Kong (2 pts) and 1-Melded Kong
(1 pt), than 2 Melded Kongs (4 pts)? Doesn’t seem logical…
Thanks as always for your wisdom. Learning the scoring for Chinese Mahjong is a process.
PS…I’m making a donation??
Thanks,
Karen
Sent from my iPhone

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Hi, Karen! Thanks for the donation. Okay, you're asking about MCR (official Majiang Competition Rules).

1. I'm guessing FC means "fully concealed." There is a principle generally accepted in several Asian variants that govern whether a hand still counts as "fully concealed" when won on a discard. The general principle in many Asian variants is that a hand can count as Concealed (not FC) when won on discard, but the set (the pair, chow, pung, or kong) that the discard completes does not get scored as Concealed. HOWEVER... in Greater Honors & Knitted Sets (fan #20 in my book) there are no "sets" as such. And on page 180 I wrote that "Concealed" may not be claimed with this hand. Reason: there are no exposable sets, thus there is no way to make the hand except Concealed (concealment is "implied"). Also, see fan #56 on page 187. "Fully Concealed" can be claimed only on self-pick, never on a discard.

2. Yes, a concealed kong can be counted as a concealed pung. For example, you can claim Two Concealed Pungs if you have a concealed pung and a concealed kong. I'm sorry, but I didn't follow your example "2 points for CK + possible 2, 16, or 64 points if you have CP Hand." If my answer doesn't satisfy, give me a clearer example, without any shorthand or abbreviations.

3. Actually, if you have 1 melded and 1 concealed kong, you earn 6 points. See the chart on page 249. And see fan #57 on page 154.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Labor Day, 2023
Donations appreciated

Donation

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Thank you so much for your ongoing support, Evelyn!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Labor Day, 2023
Donations appreciated

Your game gives me very irritating comments

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, September 3, 2023 at 10:42:02 PM EDT, Marian L wrote:
Can gMy mah-jongg question or comment is:
Sent from my iPad. This is not regarding the game itself,however I am a platinum member and every time I play the game I get the very irritating comments about evert thing that is played show on my IPad screen. The comments even cover my ability to play a tile. Please stop it. It started a few months ago and I am Irritated. Please respond .

囧 Hi, Marian! I don't know which computer mah-jongg game you're playing, but I can assure you that I am not the person who made that game. As I wrote in FAQ 24, you need to contact the maker(s) of your game. The makers/owners of the game bear the responsibility of providing tech support to the game's customers. Maybe they have a contact for customer support questions. Maybe they have a Help button that explains the game's features. And maybe you can even find a setting or option to turn off the commentary (I imagine it's intended to be helpful commentary to help you improve your playing).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 3, 2023
Donations appreciated

Did we rule correctly?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, September 2, 2023 at 01:29:39 PM EDT, Hedy G wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: Player A discarded a 3 Bam. Player D called and exposed her 2 3 bams. I was played B. As she did this, player C said, no I want the 3 bam. We went back and forth as to who should get the tile. It was decided that since player D had already exposed she should get the 3 Bam. Of course player C was not happy.
Did we rule correctly?
Thank you
Hedy G
Sent from my iPad

Yes, Hedy. See FAQ 19-C and FAQ 19-H.3. It's too late to claim a discard once a player has started to make an exposure.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
September 2, 2023
Donations appreciated

Bouquets on the 1960 card, part 2

Re: NMJL query ... bouquet hands
From: Laura B
To: mj@sloperama
Wed, Aug 30 at 9:00 PM
My email put your reply in my Spam folder. And I have just now found it.
Thank you for your reply.
I actually was not asking you to post anything to your website.
I emailed you to get a private answer.
There isn't any way for me to block out portions of the card. You have to see the entire card to answer my question.
I am happy to send you pictures of the card in email and ask you to keep it private and not share it with anyone so you can answer my question.
But I cannot give you portions of it to post on to your website.
So I am sorry that you cannot answer me privately in email and that you can only make it public.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Welcome back, Laura!
I can't give you a private answer, but I don't have to show the card, or any part of it, to answer the question here.
I leave it up to you!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 30, 2023
Donations appreciated

Just wanted to share.

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 07:17:10 PM EDT, L S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
My question is not really a question…just a comment. I did not see where else to write to you.
I wanted you to know that I set a goal for myself while playing by myself online this year to try to “win” each hand at least one time. As of today, August 29, 2023, I have won all but 4 hands! ( All of them are in singles and pairs.) I have enjoyed this challenge. It keeps me on my toes and makes playing against three computers more interesting.
Just wanted to share.
Leslie

Cool, Leslie! Now to go for those four S&P hands... (^_^)
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 29, 2023
Donations appreciated

Appprox how many people play American Maj Jong?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at 12:52:07 PM EDT, Helen T wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Appprox how many people play American Maj Jong? cannot find answer on line
Thanks
"To make a difference in someone’s life, you don’t have to be brilliant, rich, beautiful or perfect. You just have to care".

Hi, Helen! You have asked FAQ 23. The data you seek is hard to come by; if you find anything more beyond what's in the FAQ, let me know! A tip: for future searches, try the spelling "mah jongg" (not maj, and not jong with one G).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 26, 2023
Donations appreciated

I can't find this rule anywhere!

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 06:01:50 PM EDT, Star Fire wrote:
Re: Is a Quint using a joker considered jokerless?
Hello Tom,
I'm asking a question that I think I know the answer, but I can't find the rule to prove it. Can a quint with a joker be called a jokerless, since a joker is necessary. If two jokers are used, then I assume it's not considered a jokerless hand because of the extra joker, unless you are doing a sextet, which I have never seen. I would appreciate the official rule about a quint having a joker and being considered jokerless.
Thanks so much
Star Fire

Hi, Star! The "bonus" (commonly referred to as the "jokerless") rule is stated on the back of the card.

When Mah-Jongg is declared without a Joker, double the value is paid by all.

The rule goes on to mention a frequently asked question (because the rule was changed within the lifetime of players), that if the hand HAD a joker in it previously, but somebody redeemed it, it still earns the bonus (FAQ 19-DE). And it states an exception for Singles & Pairs hands.

And the rule is also stated in Mah Jongg Made Easy, the official rulebook, on page 26, but with a lot more detail, to cover win by discard and win by self-pick:

When a player declares Mah-Jongg on any hand, concealed or exposed, and no Jokers are part of the hand (exchanged Jokers from an exposure can make the hand Jokerless), the discarder pays winner 4x's the value of the hand. All other players pay 2x's the value of the hand. When a player picks own Mah Jongg tile and no Jokers are part of the hand, all players pay 4x's the value of the hand. Exception: Singles and Pairs Group, as the bonus is built into the value of these hands.

Now, doesn't it make sense that if there was an exception for Quints, that that would be mentioned somewhere? If not in the Bonus section of the card, then on page 26 in the rulebook?
But it isn't. So it makes sense, doesn't it, that there is no exception for Quints?

But this presents us with a problem - there's no proof that this isn't a rule, because it's not mentioned at all. Should it be?
I don't think so.
I mean, if the rulebook had to include a rule for every rule that doesn't exist, the rulebook would be as thick as a pre-internet phone book! Just imagine...

1001. The rule that if it's Tuesday, anyone is permitted to pick from wherever they want in the wall, does not exist.
1002. The rule that there is a jokerless bonus for Quints because you can't make a quint without a joker does not exist. The bonus is built into the value of these hands.
1003. The rule that when someone calls someone dead, she herself is dead if she's wrong, does not exist (see rule 23 for the actual rule).

Or maybe the book wouldn't need to include non-rules that are the opposite of defined rules? ...But if we have to have a phone book- sized rulebook to include all possible non-rules, maybe it would. I'm getting carried too far away, sorry!

I can't point you to proof that the rule you're seeking does not exist. Its existence is not denied anywhere in print. But I wrote FAQ 19-BK in answer to the question, "Is this a rule? I can't find it in writing anywhere!"... if that helps.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 24, 2023
Donations appreciated

1920s? mah-jong set, part 2

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Re: 1920s? mah-jong set
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 04:43:08 PM EDT, Kate T wrote:
Hi Tom –
Many thanks for your thoughtful reply and resources. It means a lot to understand the origin of my set and I couldn’t have figured it out without your sloperama web resources and your personal email. I am very appreciative.
There is obviously some sentimental value to this set given it has been in my family 100+ years. Is there $ value? And how challenging do you think it would be to find replacement tiles (I do have all the flowers even though one is missing in the photo, so I think I only need the 1 birdie bam and the jokers (or stickers to put on matching tile types)? I don’t have a sense of how rare this type of tile set is, and if rare is good or bad (meaning might be more valuable, but harder to find more tiles!). I have briefly explored the resources you site and before going down the big rabbit hole, thought I’d get your overall thoughts based on all of your experience. It seems most bamboo/bone tiles from the 1920’s have more wood and mine are more 50/50 so that could be a challenge to find a match. I am not interested in finding a box, instructions, betting sticks – just the tiles themselves. Any high level thoughts you have are helpful.
Again, many many thanks and be well,
Kate
Kate G. T

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 04:50:55 PM EDT, Kate T wrote:
Re: 1920s? mah-jong set
One edit to below! Most have more ivory and less wood then mine. I’ve corrected below!
Kate G. T

Thank you for the donation, Kate!

1. Is there $ value? - Yes, but all you have is an incomplete set of tiles without the box or the other pieces I listed. Yester... I mean, on Saturday I suggested you read column 610. In that article I talked about the value of a complete 1920s set. What you have might be worth $30 dollars, but only a collector who wants the parts in order to rescue another set would want to buy it from you.

2. how challenging do you think it would be to find replacement tiles? - Very. You should check the Tiles Wanted board. There are links at the top of the board where you can contact vendors who might have tiles that match yours.

3. the jokers (or stickers to put on matching tile types)? - No jokers were manufactured for that type of set, the tiles of that size. Stickers are easy. The vendors in FAQ 4A sell joker stickers, and so does the National Mah Jongg League.

4. I don’t have a sense of how rare this type of tile set is? - Not very. I have 2 or 3 in my collection.

5. Most have more ivory and less wood then mine. - There is no ivory in your set. The tiles are cowbone. See FAQ 7C.

6. before going down the big rabbit hole, thought I’d get your overall thoughts - I prefer that people read the FAQs before sending in questions.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 21, 2023
Donations appreciated

1920s? mah-jong set

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 04:49:21 PM EDT, Kate T wrote:
1930s? mah-jong set
Hi Tom -
I recently learned mah-jong and that inspired me to dig out an old set at our family camp in the Adirondacks. Unfortunately no one is alive who would have knowledge of its origin. There are many items in the camp going back 100+ years, and this certainly wasn’t recently purchased.
I’m not sure if the betting sticks came with the tiles or not, and there is no apparent case or storage box saved. I started doing some research as I’d ideally like to find replacement tiles to complete this set as it has some
meaning to me being in our family, but I’m not sure how to identify the material/make of these. I am guessing bone and bamboo given the ivory is so rare, but perhaps you can help? We took these photos under a bright light.
Many thanks,
Kate
Kate G. T

On Saturday, August 19, 2023 at 04:56:19 PM EDT, Kate T wrote:
Re: 1920s? mah-jong set
Sorry typo in my subject line – my guess is 1920s! And thanks for your site – it is really neat and helpful!
Kate G. T

Yes, Kate. It's a standard bone-and-bamboo set, missing a box with lid and 2 drawers, 2 or 3 dice, a dice coffin, and maybe your scoring sticks aren't divisible by four anymore. See FAQ 7-D. And there may have been a paper booklet originally included.
And yes, it's from the 1920s. See column 610.
And right, it's not ivory. See FAQ 7-C.2.
I also recommend you read more of FAQ 7, or at least any applicable chapters of FAQ 7.
Good job with the photos!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 19, 2023
Donations appreciated

What's the history of jokers and flowers, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 10:44:05 PM EDT, JUDY H wrote:
Thanks for the prompt reply.
Judy

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Thank you, Judy! May the tiles be with you.
Tom

What's the history of jokers and flowers?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, August 17, 2023 at 12:59:34 PM EDT, judy h wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Hello Tom,
I am trying to find the history of jokers and flowers. I am sure I have seen this on your site but I can’t seem to find it now.
I have been playing since age 5 or 6 and am now 80 so have seen many changes. I remember when each player started with two flowers (we called them pretties) and it was forbidden to pass or discard them. Do you have a timeframe for this?
What would be involved in having search capability added to your site? I would be willing to partially fund it.
Judy
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Judy! Flower tiles were part of the mah-jongg set early on. In the early 1870s, the "Glover set" described in FAQ 11-E, did not have eight flowers.

There were four seasons, shown here in octagonal frames. (Today, American players call the seasons "flowers.") The mah-jongg set at that time didn't have green dragons, either. And there were other tiles not included in today's mah-jongg set (see FAQ 11-E).
By 1890, the set had the three dragons, and 16 flowers/seasons:

For more of the fascinating history of the mah-jongg tile set, see Michael Stanwick's website, themahjongtileset.co.uk.
By 1920 when J.P. Babcock introduced mah-jongg to the United States, the set had eight flowers.
So that's the early history of flowers. Now, jokers.
I have in my collection some bone-and-bamboo sets (made in China) that contain two joker tiles. I don't know when those sets were manufactured, sadly. Could have been the 1930s.
It's not until 1960 that the National Mah Jongg League required jokers. This chart is from column 509:

You asked when it became permissible to pass flowers and discard them. I have done an analysis from my collection of NMJL cards, but my card collection is not complete. A date that I list here might not be the earliest date a rule was set or changed.

1938: Flowers are wild.
1943: A flower may never be discarded.
1953: Each player begins with 2 flowers.
1954: It's permissible to discard flowers.
1958: Flowers may not be passed in the Charleston.
1959: Flowers may be passed.
1960: 2 jokers introduced. Flowers are no longer wild.
1962: Jokers may be discarded. It's permissible to expose flowers in a Concealed hand.
1963: Jokers may be redeemed from atop one's own rack only.
1964: Jokers may be redeemed from anyone's rack.
1965: Jokers may be discarded only when "dogging." Jokers may never be passed in the Charleston.
1967: Jokers may be discarded anytime.
1984: Jokers forbidden in singles and pairs.

You asked how much it would cost to add a site-specific Search function: I don't know. Please understand that this site is not a thriving business; the ads and donations pay for the webhosting, but not for all the time I put into answering people's questions. I'm sorry it's challenging to locate information on this sprawling huge ocean of information, but this is not a business that can support the cost of redesign or features like a site-specific Search function, a mailing list, and other things that moneymaking sites provide. I don't always remember the precise location of everything on the site myself, but I find that I can always locate the information by using Google. For example, I might use the search string "flowers/jokers sloperama.com" - if that doesn't work, then I modify the search string - but I always include "sloperama" in the search string so Google will find it on my site.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 17, 2023
Donations appreciated

8/19/23: The joker rules timeline has been edited to include additional joker rules.

I devised a table rotation, part 2

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 09:51:28 PM EDT, betsy n wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
Hi Tom..... my name is Bettyann... (betsy is my email) To clarify...There are any number of ways to do it. You can use colored chips...any kind and red is at one table blue at another yellow,....and so in.
I have used plastic hippy hanging room divider pieces (I cut apart) I'd numbered. Today i used mini clothes pins (for hanging xmas cards) I numbered each one 1-12 and after each round (4 games) we all chose another clothes pin from the bowl....bag...box..... shrug. LOL
works like a charm. Sometimes a person can pull the same number they just had, then I give them the option to change their selection or stay pat.
Inline image Inline image I can write numbers on anything that happens to be around.... as long as I have enough of them.
Bettyann S
.• * *~:
'The happiest of people don't necessarily
have the best of everything;
They just make the most of everything they have!

Thanks for the comeback, Bettyann. I understood that anything numbered could be used (could be slips of paper) but I was just curious what you meant by "chips," and what you used usually. Anyhoo, the random method is fine by me. A lot of game hosts want a scientific or mathematical (non-random) method, but I'm with you.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 16, 2023
Donations appreciated

Bouquets on the 1960 card

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 01:30:46 PM EDT, Laura B wrote:
NMJL query ... bouquet hands
Tom,
I don't know if this is still your address.
I have a 1960-61 card And it talks about bouquet hands and non bouquet hands.
I always thought the bouquet in Chinese mahjong meant that you had All 4 of the flowers or all 4 of the seasons.
This American card looks as though the non bouquet hands are the quint hands. And all of the other hands are called bouquet hands, whether they have two flowers or four or five or six or even no flowers.
I find that confusing to call a hand with no flowers a bouquet hand.
So I was wondering if you knew anything about this term in the American game back in this year. And I don't know if you have a copy of that card and if you don't, I can certainly take a picture and send it to you.
I bought it from Johni Levene for $25. So I'm not interested in having the picture posted anywhere for free.
It has 14 flowers and 2 jokers that year and you can use flowers as if they were jokers for some of the hands. The two jokers can be used to replace tiles in a bouquet hand or a non bouquet hand. They can be used in a kong. The two jokers which they are calling the big jokers, or flowers, can be used to replace tiles in quints.
Then there is a particular hand in The Quint group. Where it says in this hand only flowers or big jokers may replace any number tile. But it doesn't say it can't be used in a pair or a single. And on the back of the card, it says that the big jokers can replace any tile in any hand for anything. It was on the other side of the card where it had a restriction about kongs.
So I'm just finding these instructions and comments very confusing as to when you can use a joker or a flower as if it were a joker.
And what the term bouquet means.
Please confirm that this is your email address by replying and then I can send you back the pictures in a reply. I don't want to send the pictures now until I know. This is really your address.
Laura B
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Hi, Laura! The ladies of the National Mah Jongg League were under no obligation to use the term "bouquet" the same way it was used in Asian variants. I do not have the 1960-61 card in my collection. I do have the 1962-63 card, but could not find the term "bouquet" on it anywhere. And I don't have a card from 1959, either.
I am sending you a reply email to let you know the answer is posted here. But don't send me a picture I can't post here. I would NOT post full scans of any NMJL card in any case. But I might want to post pertinent parts.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 16, 2023
Donations appreciated

I devised a table rotation

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:29:01 PM EDT, betsy n wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Sent from Mail for Windows
Hi Tom, I devised a table rotation which works for 2 and 3 tables. We haven’t tried it yet with a 4th table.
The director (me) reaches into a bag, with the same number of chips numbered to the number of players,……
After 4 games, I reach into the bag and hand out the chips randomly, not looking at them. Sometimes, if my group is adept and paying attention, I spill the chips into a bowl and let them pick (without looking) for themselves.
Whichever creates the least confusion, and is most orderly…..and expeditious. LOL
Either way…everyone moves……. Time to grab a chip, cookie to run to the potty…..between rounds.
Thanks
THE Bettyann

Now I don't know whether to call you betsy or Bettyann! Anyway, hi!
These chips, am I to understand they're the colored coins with the hole in the middle?

And you wrote numbers on them with a marker? I presume numbers 1-4 correspond to seats at table 1, and so on. I'll add this to FAQ 27. The world needs more simple solutions to these thorny problems!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 16, 2023
Donations appreciated

Where is your article on the origin of the white dragon?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 04:07:10 AM EDT, Stephanie B wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Dear Sloper:
Aloha From Hawaii Island.
I just read a post on FB regarding an article on the origin of the white dragon and why it is so named, it was from you. I tried to copy it but no luck. I spent time looking for it on your website yet failed. It was extremely interesting and I feel compelled to share it with my MJ group. As the ‘Kapuna’, (teacher) of our group it is important for me to keep us aware of rules as they change and the interesting facts about the history of the game.
When I started the group we learned on my vintage Chinese sets and since many of our group have become avid collectors of bovine and bamboo tile sets. We play weekly with our vintage sets, playing American Mah Jong by NMJL rules. I made sure all have your book, a requirement. Hence my interest in the history of the White Dragon.
If you ever come to Hawaii Island we all have Hawaiian Hales (Guest Houses) would LOVE yet FEAR to host you???
Mahalo,
Stephanie
"If you have a garden and a library
you have everything you need"- Cicero
Stephanie N B
Sent from my iPad

A generous offer, Stephanie! I answered the most frequently asked questions about white dragons and other "tile mysteries" in FAQ 7-E (the "Mystery Tiles" FAQ). Actually I wrote about white dragons in two places in the FAQ: here ("What does the B or P stand for?"), and here ("What is the deal with these blank tiles?").
Aloha!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 15, 2023
Donations appreciated

What's the penalty, part 2

Re: Penalty
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 07:52:04 PM EDT, Deborah C wrote:
Thanks for the info.

You're welcome, Deborah!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom

Would like to find the 1954 rules

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 04:43:21 PM EDT, Thomas L wrote:
I just found a NML card from 1954 and would like to find the rules for the game during that time period. What a difference (I guess!) ??
Thanks.
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Thomas!
If you want more than just what's printed on that card, you'll want to get hold of "That's It; How to Play Mah Jongg with Playing Cards and Chinese Tiles," by Dorothy S. Meyerson. She was one of the founders* of the NMJL, and she published updated versions of her booklet each year. I don't have a copy of the 1954 edition in my mah-jongg library. It would look something like this, the 1951 edition:

You might find it on eBay or in out-of-print bookstores or sites. Good luck with your search!
Before you go, though, you might want to read the discussion titled "What were the rules in 1943?," below (July 23 to July 25).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Thomas Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 11, 2023
Donations appreciated

*Corrected 8/13 (originally said she was a president of the League). Later digging reveals her title as "Acting President" in the 1946 edition of "That's It."

What's it worth, part 2

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 08:09:24 PM EDT, Sherry H wrote:
Thank you so much for your quick response. Your comments and analysis are greatly appreciated.
Sherry

You're welcome, Sherry!
Best place to sell, in my opinion, is on eBay. See Tips For Sellers.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 10, 2023
Donations appreciated

What's the penalty?

On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 03:43:51 PM EDT, Deborah C wrote:
Penalty
What is the penalty for exchanging a joker before your draw to start your turn? Thank you.

Hi, Deborah! See FAQ 19-AA; joker redemption out of turn is a death penalty offense.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 10, 2023
Donations appreciated

What's it worth?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, August 10, 2023 at 03:28:36 PM EDT, Sherry H wrote:
Hi Tom.
My mom passed away and had a mah-jongg set.
The condition of the case is fair as the edging around the outside is worn and the latches are old.
There are 152 tiles (8 are covered w tape and from the note in the case are to be used as jokers) and two dice. The tiles are two tone: one side green and the other side butterscotch. The tiles appear to me to be in very good condition. Additionally, there are 8 extra tiles - they are not two tone. They are all 12mm thick, 30mm long, and 20mm wide.
I cannot determine what the tiles are made of even though I reviewed your FAC 7c.
I do not know when or where my mom purchased the set, however she was a collector of antiques so it would not surprise me if it came from an antique dealer.
I have attached pictures of the case and tiles and other things (perhaps tile holders - but not sure because I have never played) in the trumpet like case. I tried to arrange the tiles like the check list described.
From your checklist, the craks appear to be of a simpler style.
Based on this info, are you be able to rate the set / assign a value? I am interested in selling so pros or defects of the set are appreciated. For example, can you tell what the tiles are made of and the approximate date it was made?
I do not play. Can you recommend a place to sell the set? Would this be a set I could sell on your “Sets for Sale” board?
I have attached pictures.
Thank you,
Sherry

Hi, Sherry!
I'm disappointed that the pictures of the tiles are small and blurry. I'll have to go by your word as to the condition of the tiles as Very Good. I agree that Fair is the correct condition for the case. You didn't say what condition the racks are in. From one of your photos, it appears that the brass ends are badly tarnished. So I'm calling the racks just Fair. Also, you didn't say, but I assume there are four racks.

I'm confused as to the tile counts. You said there are 152 two-tone tiles and 8 extra tiles for a total of 160 tiles, but I only see 156 tiles, and I cannot tell which ones are NOT two-tone. I see 4 extra tiles whose yellow side is decidedly darker than all the rest. If you have 152 two-tone tiles and 4 extra (non-two-tone) tiles, that's not a problem. But if you have 148 two-tone tiles and 8 extra (non-two-tone) tiles, that is a huge problem.

One minor defect: the scoring chips are all lost. Most players today don't use the scoring chips, but they're a standard accessory, and modern chips are not as attractive as the originals were.

The white tape is not a bad problem - the set's buyer can remove that and affix proper joker stickers, unless you want to do that. I assume that underneath the tape are flower tile designs. (A previous owner converted flowers to jokers.)

The tiles' material is "plastic." I can't guess what type of plastic since the photos are so poor.

Two-tone tiles are desired by collectors, so I would say that the set is worth somewhere between $90 and $120 as-is... IF you have 152 two-tone tiles. It would be worth more (over $200) if the case were replaced, and the brass polished, and the tape replaced with joker stickers. If you have only 148 two-tone tiles, then the set is worth more like $70, it would be a waste of time to refurbish the set, and the buyer will likely NEVER be able to find 4 needed two-tone tiles to match.

As for the set's age, it appears that the set was manufactured before the 1960s. The basis for that estimate is the fact that the set came with either 12 or 16 flowers, and no jokers. See column 509; if the set came with 12 flowers, it was likely made around 1943. If the set came with 16 flowers, it was likely made around 1946.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 10, 2023
Donations appreciated

Those confusing joker rules!

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 04:45:09 PM EDT, Sally A wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:if I exposed tiles that contain a Joker and someone discards that tile am I allowed to call and replace my joker?

Sally, FAQ 19-G.2 answers your question. Once a redeemable tile has been discarded, it can only be taken to create a new set for exposure or mah-jongg. It is NOT permitted to take the tile in order to redeem it for a joker. Also see those confusing joker rules in FAQ 19. Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 9, 2023
Donations appreciated

Edited to correct an error.

She called Mahj and put up too many tiles.

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 10:49:13 PM EDT, Rosemary B wrote:
Calling MahJongg
A player called MahJongg and put up too many tiles. Another player called her on it. She took back one of the tiles and declared Mahjongg again. She said she hadn’t discarded yet, so she was allowed to change her exposure. I agreed. Were we correct?
Thank you for your time.
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Rosemary!
It's not possible to discard a tile after declaring mah-jongg unless one has too many tiles. If she's showing 14 tiles atop the rack and one on the sloping front of the rack, that's 15 tiles. That's too many tiles, which is a death penalty rule violation. She's dead. She puts the newly exposed tiles back on the sloping front of the rack, and the rest of the players continue playing. See FAQ 19-AA.
Or if you're still playing "Siamese" mah-jongg and my answer doesn't work with the rules you play, you should ask Gladys Grad (https://siamesemahjongg.com/about-contact-us/).
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 7, 2023
Donations appreciated

"Red goes with craks and dots with soap..." Huh?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 05:50:34 PM EDT, Marcia A wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: I am a beginning player and mixed up about soap and the dragons. For instance on the back of the card it explains what goes with each like red goes with craks and dots with soap. I I don’t know what that means. Please explain???? Can use them , like dragons and soaps like jokers?

Hi, Marcia!
Where you see D on the front of the card, that means a dragon must be used. The D will have a color, because in American mah-jongg, each of the three dragons is associated with one of the three suits. A hand is one suit if the hand is shown in one color, two suits if the hand is shown in two colors, and so on. Consider the hand 11 333 DDDD 333 55 (Any 3 Suits) - How many colors? Three. So, how many suits? Three. Let's say your 11 333 is made from dots. And let's say you use craks for the 333 55. Which suit has not been used yet? Bams. Green dragon goes with Bams, so the DDDD has to be green dragons, since you've already used craks and dots in that 3-color (3-suit) hand.
Soaps (white dragon) are associated with dots, but that doesn't mean you have to use dots with 0 (zero), because when used as zero, soaps are no longer suit-related dragons - they're just zeroes, because no other tile can represent zero.
I'm sure you'll have questions about some of the hands on the front of the card. Check FAQ 16 for questions you may have about the 2023 card.

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 6, 2023
Donations appreciated

How old is it? (Part 3)

Re: Mah-Jongg old set, different from American set.
On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 10:22:26 AM EDT, Jonell Y wrote:
Dear Tom,
Thank you for all your help!
Greatly appreciated it!
Have a great weekend!!
Jonell

You're welcome, Jonell.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

With a little help from my friends

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 06:08:13 AM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
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Thank you, Evelyn! I appreciate you.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 4, 2023
Donations appreciated

Question on JR Fitch's 9 Dragons Mahjong

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 12:26:12 PM EDT, Edmond K wrote:
Question on JR Fitch's 9 Dragons Mahjong
Hello Mr Sloper,
I have always enjoyed the 9 Dragons software of Mahjong. A 1992 Pro version is available which is said to be Windows 11 compatible. Is this correct? Thank you.
Ed K

I don't know, Ed. I have not tried to install that version on Windows 11.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 3, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 18

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 09:16:49 AM EDT, Connie Lou-David O wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
On the 2023 card first combination in 2468 category can you pick up either the 4 or 6 tile for exposure?
Sent from my iPad

No, you can't. As the rule is explained in FAQ 19-E.1: "A discard may only be taken to make a PUNG, KONG, QUINT, or SEXTET - or, of course, to make mah-jongg."

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 3, 2023
Donations appreciated

How old is it? (Part 2)

On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 01:49:00 PM EDT, Jonell Y wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg old set, different from American set.
Adding additional picture as it didn't attach.
Thank you again!
Jonell

Hi, Jonell. I was working and missed seeing your two latest emails until hours later, when I found and rescued them from my Spam folder.
The blue dragons are your white dragons (soap, as we wild and crazy American guys and gals say). Too bad that one of them is so badly discolored.
The E-S-W-N flowers at upper left are the flowers that originally came with the set. (The reason they're marked with wind designator letters has to do with how flowers were treated in the original game before American mah-jongg came along, the same reason flowers have numbers on them. See FAQ 19-CB.)
All the yellow tiles (eight dark yellow flowers, and two light yellow flowers and two light yellow blanks) were added later to satisfy changing NMJL requirements. Those tiles make the set essentially playable, but they don't really belong with the celluloid tiles.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 1, 2023
Donations appreciated

How old is it?

On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 01:25:45 PM EDT, Jonell Y wrote:
Mah-Jongg old set, different from American set.
Hello Tom,
I'd appreciate your expertise on the set we have had in our family since the 1960's, possibly longer.
My mother in law, currently 94 , inherited from her aunt.
We believe it's from China or a Chinese version with the racks that have betting chips. We have 5 racks?
It's in an alligator case however its from US, original markings on lock/clasp read: eagle lock co. TEARYVILLE Conn. USA.
This set is different from my newer American set.
We'd like you guidance and any information you can shed light on from dating it, to it's origi, Is it bone or ivory? Not sure if we are missing pieces or not?
Please see attached pictures.
Greatly appreciate your help!
Thank you,
Jonell

Hi, Jonell! To answer your five questions, in the order asked:
1. Yes, that does appear to be five racks. If you're wondering why there are five, see FAQ 7D.
2. The tiles could be from the 1920s, that's when celluloid tiles were made. The case and racks could have been made in the 1930s. I was not shown how the tiles look when packed into the case - I suspect they don't look like the case was made specifically to fit those tiles. I don't think celluloid tiles were originally packaged in these "trumpet cases" with racks, but maybe the "Other Excellent Mah-Jongg Sites" linked to in FAQ 4A have info on celluloid sets that came in that type of case.
3. All (tiles, case, racks) were made in America.
4. Neither bone nor ivory. The tiles are solid celluloid. Celluloid tiles are collectible, but unfortunately, they've aged unevenly (some tiles being differently colored, faded with time). See FAQ 7C for info about celluloid.
5. I can't tell if it's complete because I don't see four red dragons and four white dragons - you put placeholder tiles there, or maybe you turned the fourth dragons over (face down), but it looks to me like you're missing a red dragon and a white dragon. A previous owner has also added 10 yellow flower tiles, and what looks like two extra blank tiles. If you wonder why those were added, it's because the National Mah Jongg League required extra flowers at one time. You can see column 509 for details, if you're interested.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
August 1, 2023
Donations appreciated

How old is my set?

On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 09:31:30 PM EDT, Nadia S wrote:
Set Age-Determination
Hi,
I came across your website online and I saw that I am able to email you and you can help me determine the age of my Mahjongg set. Below are the checklist answers:
1. Carrying case, tiles, 3 small dice (big red dot), 1 wind indicator(cube in holder), 1 instruction manual missing cover
2. The instructional manual is missing the cover, it has no dates or author mentioned.
3. I could not tell what the tiles are made of. I think they might be either Bakelite or Catalin, the tiles are carved, engraved and painted and each one is unique in shape and size. They are also two-toned, but I can't find one with the same colors.
4. I have no information on this set. We got it from my husband's parent's house, it was in his stuff and we have a speculation that it's either from his grandmother or grandfather due to how old it looks and nobody can remember where it's from or who's it was.
5. The average length is 1inch, the depth is about 1/2 inch and the width is about 3/4 inch. Each toned portion is about a 1/4 inch in depth.
6. 144 marked tiles, 4 blank tiles (148 tiles in all). Either 8 or 12 flowers, I couldn't tell what 4 of them were (4 were identical and looked kind of like birds). No jokers in the set. All basic 136 tiles are present.
7. I'm not sure what type of case it's in, it seems like wood or cardboard covered in some sort of orange vinyl. It appears to be aged, but no signs of damage.
8. I believe it has modern craks, but I'm honestly unsure, it does appear to be more elabore vs. basic than most.
I really hope you can help me figure out what kind of set this is and how it is. Thanks in advance and I hope to hear from you soon!
Best,
Nadia

Hi, Nadia!
I bought a similar set (with different-colored backs and carrying case, probably same manufacturer) in the early 1990s, and the set was new at the time. So my age estimate is late 1980s to early 1990s.
Oh wait, you also asked "what kind of set" it is. It's made for playing most Asian variants. It's not suitable for American mah-jongg because it doesn't have eight jokers. It's not quite what Japanese players would want, because it doesn't have red fives. See the Types of Sets FAQ.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 30, 2023
Donations appreciated

Do you sell Mah Jong bags?

On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 05:12:23 PM EDT, Sherry Brewer <sherry_brewer@icloud.com> wrote:
Bags
I found a note to myself probably 6 months old about you. Do you sell Mah Jong bags? And I also wrote The Red Dragon &The West Wind. I also have a phone number 410-484-6072. Is that for you? I want anything mahjong, learning materials, merchandise for team mates Christmas gift, ect. Is that what you do? Thank you,
Sherry Brewer 210-386-6790 San Antonio, TX
Sent from my iPhone

No, that's not what I do, Sherry. Hey, good luck with your book! Catchy title, by the way.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 30, 2023
Donations appreciated

What does the writing on these tiles say, part 3 (What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 11)

Re: Do these One Dot tiles have a hidden meaning?
On Sunday, July 30, 2023 at 03:24:38 AM EDT, Bridget van H wrote:
Yes Tom, you are quite right. These One Dots belong to a Talking Hawk set.

Good morning, Bridget. As I wrote in the Manufacturers FAQ, I'm not an expert in manufacturers - and that also includes named mah-jongg sets. Maybe "Talking Hawk" means something to the collectors in the Mah Jongg Collectors Association but, sadly, I've never heard of it. I suppose it's so named for the illustration on the 1B tiles, but I've never seen it. I haven't heard from Ray yet, by the way. He may be on summer vacation, traveling, which people are doing again now that the COVID emergency is over.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 30, 2023
Donations appreciated

Chinese "up joker" vs. "down joker"

On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 02:11:32 PM EDT, Carol wrote:
Jokers in Chinese Mahjong
In the Chinese Mahjong app by JoyGames.net that I occasionally play, they ask if I want to play popular mahjong or International mahjong (defined as more than 8 points). My question is that if I choose Popular mahjong then I need to say whether I want to play with jokers or not ... and if I do choose jokers, do I want "up joker" or "down joker." I have no idea what the "up" and "down" refers to ... do you?
Thanks so much for your website,
Carol
Medford OR

Sorry, Carol, I don't know, but I guess it might have to do with the distinctions between different sorts of jokers as used in Vietnamese mah-jongg. Mah-jongg historian Michael Stanwick wrote about those in FAQ 7E-J. Actually, both those links point to different places in FAQ 7E-J.
A guess: maybe the "down jokers" serve as wild tiles for numbered suit tiles while "up jokers" serve as wild tiles for honors (winds and dragons). Or maybe the "down jokers" can only be used for numbered suit tiles while "up jokers" can be used for any tile.
If the up and down tiles have different symbols on them, maybe you can take a screenshot and send it to me.
Of course you can also select one, and see if they get used by your opponent bots (assuming that when the joker is used, it shows a joker symbol on it - if the joker, once used, simply assumes the face of whatever tile it's replacing, it'll be difficult for you to tell that's a joker). In other words, try them both and see if you can figure out how they work from context.
Have fun, and good luck!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 29, 2023
Donations appreciated

What does the writing on these tiles say, part 2 (What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 10)

On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 02:38:57 AM EDT, Bridget van H wrote:
Do these One Dot tiles have a hidden meaning?
Hi Tom
Higher res image as requested. Hoping that Ray has enough to go on now
With many thanks and kind regards
Bridget
One dots hawk set.jpg
1.4MB

I won't try to decipher them myself because the characters are so stylized, but I will ask Ray if he would have a look. I'm curious, Bridget. Your picture's filename refers to "hawk set." I take it that means your 1B tiles depict a hawk?
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 29, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 17

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 06:02:34 PM EDT, Man H wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
On the 2023 card in consecutive runs on line 7:
Can I call Mah Jongg with a hand that has:
4 - Flowers
3 - #4 cracks
3 - #4 Dots
2 - #5 bams
2 - #6 bams
FFFF 444(cracks) 444(dots) 55 66(bams)
Or must the pungs be 7s?

Hi, Man! The pungs have to be sevens if the pairs are fives and sixes. If the pungs are fours, the pairs have to be twos and threes. In most Consecutive Run hands, you can choose your own starting (lowest) number, but you can never mess with the hand's structure. The card shows FFFF 11 22 333 333, meaning the pungs must be made of the next consecutive number after the two pairs. You can't turn it around the other way.
I'll add this Q&A to FAQ 16.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 28, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 16

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 06:24:21 PM EDT, Star Fire wrote:
Re: Ruling
We had a question on the card under 2023, third line down. Shows 3 colors so we assumed 3 different suits should be used, but wording says 2023 any suit and ANY dragons. With that being said, can't one of the dragons be the same as the numbers?
FFFF DDD 2023 DDD
FFFF DDD 2023 DDD
Thank you for your ruling.
Star Fire

Hi, Star!
I'd like to introduce you to FAQ 16, which answers your question and many other questions about the 2023 NMJL card. I suggest you bookmark it.

FAQ 16 says: The 2023 can be the same suit as one of your dragon pungs. You can make the hand in two or three suits. The parenthetical overrides the color-coding. You can use dots in the 2023, but you don't have to. You can use a pung of soaps, but you don't have to. The dragon pungs have to be two different dragons.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 25, 2023
Donations appreciated

What were the rules in 1943, part 3

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 01:38:53 PM EDT, C wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
Thanks so much for your help! Can I make an anonymous donation? ??
Sent from my iPhone

Yes, you can! I can either withhold your name from the donation post or just not post the Paypal notice at all. Thanks in advance! Glad my response was helpful.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 25, 2023
Donations appreciated

What were the rules in 1943, part 2

Addendum/correction to yesterday's response to C████, about the 1943 rules.
I decided I should dig deeper. I pulled out my copy of Viola Cecil's 1940 rulebook.

● The 1940 rulebook says that pungs MAY be exposed, provided that the player "holds two (or one and a flower) of that tile in hand." But the pung-containing hands on the 1943 card are all concealed (those hands are NOT marked with an X).
● I did find the rule on the back of the card about flower discards being illegal. It was also illegal to pass flowers in the Charleston.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 25, 2023
Donations appreciated

What were the rules in 1943?

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 11:55:49 PM EDT, C████ wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
Background only…not really part of the question.
 [Sentence omitted] I want to play MJ [omitted] with the 1943 card and by the rules in place for that year. I have the card for that year in hand, which I have read, and I’ve also read what you’ve written about that year. I understand the 12 flowers are used like jokers. I read the rule for that year says everyone starts with one flower, and they can’t be discarded.
Here’s the question:
I am looking for information about how the NMJL game of Mah Jongg was played in 1943. Is anything else special or different about rules of play for that year that isn’t on the back of the 1943 card?
Warm Regards, and thanks in advance!
C████
Sent from Mail for Windows

Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 12:26:53 AM EDT, C wrote:
Hi again! I wrote the below as I was hoping you wouldn’t publish the background info. [Sentence omitted] If you can’t respond to my question without it, I understand, and would respectively withdraw the question. If you need to use the background info it would be okay if you don’t have to use my name or email. Again, thank you in advance!

Hi, C████! I always start the day with Wordle and Jumble, but you presented me with not one but two puzzles. Your question, of course, is one. Perhaps the greater puzzle, though, was how to satisfy your extraordinary request for secrecy.
You already know the rules on the card itself. The biggest difference is that the 12 flowers were "wild" and there were no jokers, as you've already noted. But if the set you're using doesn't have 12 flowers, you'll have to use some jokers to represent flowers (while using the other flowers as functional jokers).
You can see that the Charleston rules are the same, but then you have to drop whatever rules the League has adopted in the last 80 years. By using my browser's search function in FAQ 19 to find the word "when," I find these rules:
● FAQ 19-S.2: wild tiles could be used to represent a single or as part of a pair back then, since the rule forbidding that was not introduced until 1984.
● FAQ 19-R: there was a rule against "looking ahead," but there was no explicit rule against picking ahead until 1956.

I checked the 1943 card and noticed something curious: the card mentions how claiming a discard for a kong, quint, or sextet works, but nothing about claiming a discard for a pung. I think you should assume that it's not allowed to call a discard to make a single, pair, or pung.* But you can use wild tiles as a single or in any size of grouping.
Rule 5 on the back of the card mentions "exchange," which seems to mean one can redeem (exchange) a natural tile for a wildflower, just as one can redeem jokers today.

Now for breakfast. And Wordle and Jumble. And that's quite enough puzzling for today, thank you very much. No more secrecy requests, if you please.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 24, 2023
Donations appreciated

* See correction next day in Part 2 (above).
P.S. I don't know when I've ever written about the 1943 card before, and I don't find on the card that wildflowers could not be discarded. But that rule makes sense since wildflowers could be used for anything and everything. - Tom

What does the writing on these tiles say? (What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 9)

On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 10:23:43 AM EDT, Bridget van H wrote:
Do these One Dot tiles have a hidden meaning?
Hi Tom
I’d love to know what these tiles say.
Kind regards
Bridget

Hi, Bridget! Little problem: the photo is low-resolution and the characters are written with a stylized squarish look that's hard to decipher for someone (like me) who knows only a very few Chinese characters and has to look them up by stroke count. Maybe my friend Ray Heaton will be able to figure them out, but I think a higher-res photo is needed. As it is, I won't ask Ray to have a look until you can send a better picture.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 22, 2023
Donations appreciated

P.S. The writing on 1D tiles usually just says the name of the manufacturing company, so I wouldn't hold out hopes for anything romantic or interesting. - Tom
P.P.S. Did you, by chance, see the series of posts titled "What do these One Dot symbols represent," from last February, below? Your symbols are different from those in that previous correspondence.

How much is my set worth?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 12:22:45 AM EDT, Michael M wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: how much is my Mah-Jongg set worth. Hi Tom I picked up a MJ set at a garage sale a couple weeks ago and am looking to sell it but the problem is I have no idea what it’s value is. I came across your website and saw the part about free appraisal if I could answer some questions and it be public so here it goes hopefully I do this right.
The set contains 144 tiles, 120 sticks, 4 small dice, 1 medium dice, 4 wind discs, a cylindrical container with a lid, Babcock’s rules for Mah-Jongg, and a box to put everything in.
The condition of the set is fair to good. But that’s because the pieces look dirty and I didn’t want to try and clean them and ruin anything. Also their is a small gap on a couple tiles.
I don’t know what the tiles are made of. Possibly bamboo and bone? I was kinda hoping you knew and wanted to share that information with me.
I don’t really know anything about the history of the set.
The tiles are in mm 28 x 19.6 x 10.8 with small variations between them of .1 or so and the small piece on top looks to be about 1.7 mm thick. That doesn’t affect overall size I just said as a side note for more information. I also believe the 2 pieces that form the tiles are glued together.
144 tiles total with the 1 bam as a bird, no jokers, what looks like Chinese writing with English numbers in the corner of the bams, dots, cracks, and flowers as well as N S E W on the corner of the winds and the white dragon are 4 blank tiles and the dragons are the only tiles without a number or letter on them. Their are 8 flower tiles all with unique picture on each one. As far as the sticks go the 1 red dot sticks have 36 pieces the 2 black dot have 8 pieces the 5 red dot have 8 pieces and the 10 black dot have 36 pieces. The 4 wind discs also vary in size a little bit but all fit In the cylindrical container.
The set comes in a small wood container with a lid that slides off and in that box is a large section and a divider to give it 2 more sections. No marking with the exception or 104 written on the floor of container inside of it.
The instructions it comes with is complete but worn. The pages look like they have yellowed, some have tears, there is a stain on a few of the last pages possibly
The craks are what I believe is simpler style
12. 13. 14. I’ll answer with pictures
Zero jokers
Thank you sir and hope this info helps get an answer.

If the set was in Very Good condition, it would be worth somewhere between $95 and $115, but in its present condition, it's worth between $70 and $80.
*You can probably improve the wrinkled rulebook's condition by flattening it in a pile of books for a couple of years. That would add another $10 or so to the set's value. There are cleaning tips in FAQ 7-o - as long as you avoid wiping the water-soluble paint in the carved designs, you can improve the tiles' appearance.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 22, 2023
Donations appreciated

Is it ivory?

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:45:27 PM EDT, Daniel & Megan P wrote:
Ivory Mahjong Tiles?
Hello,
I have an old Mahjong set that my grandfather bought at an antique store atleast 30 years ago.
Im reviewing all of the pictures on your website and the lines on the titles don’t look like anything but your picture of the ivory tile.
Could you take a look at these pictures and let me know what you think?
Thanks!
Daniel P

Sorry, Daniel. Look again at FAQ 7c and see the entry on celluloid. Your tiles are celluloid on wood.
Your confusion is understandable; the makers of celluloid intended it to be a lookalike substitute for ivory, and celluloid is often called "French ivory." I'll add this Q&A to the Comments section of the 'Is It Ivory' FAQ for future visitors.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 21, 2023
Donations appreciated

I can say mah-jongg on a discard if I'm waiting for a single or to complete a pair, correct?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 06:15:59 PM EDT, Susan V wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Is this correct-
A player can call for a tile to complete a mahjong including for a pair and a single
Sent from my iPad

Yes. See FAQ 19-E3.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 20, 2023
Donations appreciated

We need tiles for visually impaired players

On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 10:17:21 AM EDT, J B wrote:
Tiles
Hello Tom
I run a group which has two visually impaired members and have been trying to find an enlarged set. I have found a number of sets with 40 x 30 tiles but none have arabic numbers on them. Any suggestions?
Also tried to send a similar message to UK MJ Assn but their link doesn't work and there isn't an address on their site so no way to get in touch.
I hope you may be able to help.
regards, John B
South Lakes u3a

Hi, John!
I've written an FAQ on tiles for visually impaired players. See FAQ 7-S. I hope it's helpful. Read it all, including the reader suggestions.
I'm afraid the UK MJ Association has disbanded, unfortunately. I suspect it was very small to begin with.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 18, 2023
Donations appreciated

The card says "2s and 8s only," so...

Mah-Jongg Q A
On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 08:12:13 AM EDT, Anne D wrote:
Hello Mr Sloper,
My mah-jongg question is:
Perhaps you could clarify a hand on the 2023 National Mah Jongg League card, 2468/5, of which one of my friends is in disagreement with the rest of us...
She insists that jokers cannot be used for either the 222 or 888 - both because the card states, "2s and 8s Only" and because the online game she uses (MyJongg) calls her hand dead when she uses a joker for either the 2s or 8s. As we understand the rules, jokers should be allowed for the 222 or 888.
Thank you for your help!
Anne

Hi, Anne!
"2s and 8s only" does not mean jokers can't be used. It says on the back of the card that jokers may be used in any grouping of three or more like tiles. A joker is a 2 or 8 if you say it is! I'll add this to FAQ 16, which answers frequently asked questions about the 2023 NMJL card.
As for the computer game: Your friend might have been called dead on that hand for some other reason. She should try again to make that hand on her computer game, and if it happens again, she should contact the makers of that game to inquire.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 18, 2023
Donations appreciated

The 2023 NMJL card, part 15

How does the death challenge work, exactly? What's the procedure?

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 08:34:01 PM EDT, Louetta M <bookworm> wrote:
(No Subject)
I looked carefully thru the Q and A and couldn’t find the answer to my question, so:
When I learned to play Mah Jong many years ago, my teacher said that if you declare a person’s hand dead, but it can be confirmed by a third party, ( we always play in groups, so I would get a third party from another table to confirm dead or not), that the players hand was indeed not dead, but still a legal hand, that the person who made the accusation would then be dead. I have been teaching for a very long time and continue to teach that. We do not play for money and I don’t encourage the declaring a hand dead but if it comes up I would like to have the correct answer.
What are your thoughts on this practice?
Lou aka bookworm
Thanks for all your work.
Sent from Mail for Windows

Hi, Lou!
Your teacher taught you wrong.
The actual death challenge rules are described fully in FAQ 19. And I have some books to recommend, too. There's my book, The Red Dragon & The West Wind. There's Mah Jongg Made Easy, the official rulebook of the NMJL. And a couple of books by Elaine Sandberg... (see FAQ 3 for a lot more books about mah-jongg).
The death challenge rule is perfectly fine to use - when you know someone cannot make mah-jongg, it's beneficial for the other players if that player stops removing tiles from the wall. That can help someone else make mah-jongg.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 12, 2023
Donations appreciated

Sloperama supportarama!

On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 04:58:35 PM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
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Thank you very much, Darlene!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 12, 2023
Donations appreciated

Make, material, value, age or anything else

On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 07:22:33 AM EDT, Melanie C wrote:
Mah Jong
Hi
I have this set that I found inn my sisters house and have no idea of make, material, value, age or anything else. If you can give me any advice I would be grateful.
Kind regards
Mel

Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
7/11/23
Donations appreciated

How much, part 2

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 07:21:30 PM EDT, Nora S wrote:
Re: value estimation of Mah Jong set
Thanks Tom, much appreciated!
Cheers,
Nora

You're welcome, Nora!

How much is it worth?

On Saturday, July 8, 2023 at 11:20:26 PM EDT, Nora S wrote:
value estimation of Mah Jong set
Hi Tom,
I came across your website and read it carefully, trying to adhere to your instructions as closely as possible. Could you please give me an estimate of the value of this Mah Jong set ? I'm happy for you to post it on your bulletin.
Here are the details:
Mah-Jong Set - bought in 1986 in Shanghai on a street market.
Case: wood (?) covered in fabric (exterior) and paper (interior); dimensions = 360mm long x 233mm wide x 40mm high; condition of case is ‘fair’ i.e. can be used but has tears in fabric and paper covering and mildew stains inside; handle is rusty;
Contents: 4 trays with 144 tiles; plus 1 box with 8 blank tiles, 118 sticks, 6 dices and 4 wind indicator disks; counting sticks and disks seem to be plastic or bakelite; no chips or manual or anything else;
Condition of tiles is good; only 2 tiles (Bams) have a damaged corner (see last photo); they are not marked with western indices;
Material of tiles is bamboo and bone; thickness of bamboo 10mm; Thickness of bone 3mm;
Dimension of tiles 31mm long x 23mm wide x 13mm high
Here are some photos, which I hope will give you enough of a picture for an estimate.
Best regards,
Nora

Hi, Nora! You did a wonderful job of providing me the information!
Value is all about quality. The staining inside the box is unsightly, and those two chipped tiles are a problem. Also, the tiles do not have Western indices (Roman letters and Arabic numerals), which means most American and Western Hemisphere players can't read the craks suit, nor the winds, dragons, and jokers.
This type of set was widely distributed beyond China in the 1990s, with indices and without chipped edges, and even with a mangled-English instruction booklet. Those made-for-export sets went for anywhere from $50 to $90 initially; new sets of that type still go for the $90 dollar range, give or take ten.
But your set is old, has 2 dinged-up tiles, and doesn't have indices, so it's worth somewhere around $50, give or take twenty.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 9, 2023
Donations appreciated

How old is this American-style set?

On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 04:27:26 PM EDT, nava l wrote:
Hi Tom,
I apologize if this email went through to you already- it's not showing in my 'sent' folder, so just in case...
I stumbled onto your site and was wondering if you could share any insight into when my Mahjong set was made?
It belonged to my grandmother who died in Brooklyn in 1969 and that's all I know, besides that she had a regular Tuesday night game for many years. Based on the 8 flowers and lack of jokers I'm thinking '37-'42, but wondering if that's correct or if there are any clues I'm missing or further indicators about the date?
The set looks to me like bakelite. There are 14 titles on the right that are not part of the same set, but were in the box. These others appear to be a mix of bakelite and catalin (I'm deducing that from your site as some are shinier and more translucent than the others). There are 148 tiles total in the main set, including 8 flowers and 4 blanks (2 with joker stickers). The tiles are quite thick - dimensions are 7/8" x 1&1/4" with a thickness of 5/8". The box is alligator style with latches and 2 trays inside. Apologies for the lighting as the colors aren't reading well, but the tiles are a butterscotch shade and the images are carved.
I'm also curious about the assorted flowers and blanks that do not match the main set. I play Taiwanese rules, so I don't know if they might have been added for American-style play or if you could imagine another reason?
Thanks so much!
Nava

Hi, Nava!
You did a beautiful job of providing photos, and asking your questions! Thank you for that.
It is an American-made set, made before 1970, for sure, because the (American) National Mah Jongg League required every set to have at least 8 jokers, starting in 1970. We can narrow it down farther than that: your set came originally with no jokers, and only four blanks and eight flowers. See the Flowers/Jokers chart in column 509. As early as 1943, the League began to require 12 flowers to play their card (list of hands) that year. So your set is older than 1943. Could have been made in the late 1930s or early 1940s. I can't zero it down any more than that.
The extra "alien" tiles in the set were added to comply with the changing NMJL flower counts. Your set has 20 flowers and 2 jokers. See the chart; in the early 1960s, the added flowers (from other sets), together with the 2 stickered jokers, comply with the 1960-62 requirements. 20 flowers were needed the hear before, and once tiles were added, extras were not removed.
This "foreign flowers" trick was commonly done back when the League kept changing the tile counts. So we know the set was made before 1943, and it stopped getting extra tiles added to it in 1962.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 9, 2023
Donations appreciated

How to use an online game as a teaching aid, part 4

On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 08:22:52 PM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Edward S
Hello Thomas Sloper,
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Thank you, Leslie!

How to use an online game as a teaching aid, part 3

Re: Question about teaching others how to play
On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 04:47:50 PM EDT, L S wrote:
Hi again,
When I responded, I typed too fast (as usual) and wrote “mad” instead of “make” when I was trying to say that I will make a donation. Sorry about that.
I was wondering if you use PayPal. I would like to make the donation with PayPal but if not, then I will select one of the other ways at the bottom of the page.
Thanks again,
Leslie
P.S.: My friend has not tried your suggestion yet but when/if she does, I will let you know how it goes. I know what you mean about ZOOM. I had to help everyone in my Book Club to understand how to meet during the pandemic when I sent out the invites. But we are great at it now.

Thanks, Leslie. There's just one way to donate to me, and it does happen to be Paypal. Just click the Donate button above, or any "Donations appreciated" link on this site, and that'll send you right to Paypal.
Play safe out there, I know that's what you're already doing. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
7/7/2023
Donations appreciated

How to use an online game as a teaching aid, part 2

Re: Question about teaching others how to play
On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 03:50:52 PM EDT, L S wrote:
Thanks so much for the quick response. I will follow you direction and I most likely will mad a donation to you in the near future. You deserve it!!
After I read your posted response, I will get back to you to let you know if it worked.
Thank again,
Leslie

You're welcome, Leslie!
Good luck. Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
7/7/2023
Donations appreciated

How to use an online game as a teaching aid or platform?

On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 12:41:34 PM EDT, L S wrote:
Question about teaching others how to play
Hi,
I learned so much from your website several years ago that I was able to teach 6 friends how to play. Since the pandemic, I have been playing everyday online at realmahjongg.com because we stopped playing in person. We will probably get back together to play in person but until then, playing online has been great!
So now, one of the gals I taught is trying to teach her sister how to play but they are in 2 different states. (I taught all of my friends in person at my home.)
Do you have any suggestions on how to play on the computer but “share” open hands at the same time in order to help someone learn how to play?
It may sound like a strange question but I thought if anyone had an answer, it would be you.
Thanks so much for all you do!
Leslie S

Hi, Leslie!
It's not a strange question. You can use Zoom or Teams and Share your screen with the students - and the students can share their tiles with the group, too. But one drawback of this method is you'll probably have to deal with students who need to be taught how to use Zoom or Teams, how to Share, and other questions that inevitably arise when newbies try to use online conferencing software. "How come I can't hear anybody?" "Hey Susie, you have to turn your mic on!" "How come I can't see Deborah?" "How do I get back to the game?" "Now I can't see Zoom!" "What's a browser tab?" And so forth and so on. And that's if you get everybody to manage to get to your Zoom room in the first place! Good luck!
I'll add this to FAQ 26.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
7/7/2023
Donations appreciated

Which variant, part 2

On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 02:51:50 AM EDT, Neal B wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
Thanks for your answer Tom.
Much appreciated
Neal

On Friday, July 7, 2023 at 02:50:02 AM EDT, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Neal B
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You're welcome, Neal! Thanks for the donation!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 7, 2023
Donations appreciated

Which variant does this booklet describe?

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 06:16:04 PM EDT, Neal B wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Hi Tom
Thanks for offering to help with MJ questions. 
First off... I have checked the FAQs and I don't *think* the answer to my question is there, but if it is and I've missed it. My apologies for doing so.
My Mah-Jong set (144 tiles, including 8 flower/ season tiles) came with a small red booklet (23 pages) entitled (exactly)....
Directions of Playing Mah-Jongg "Chinese Game of Four Winds"
It is also online here...
https://imgur.io/a/DFEIHTH
It doesn't seem to match any version I've found so far on any of the mahjong websites. 
If refers to selecting a BANKER who is not East Wind but is selected by East Wind (page 5) 
It also refers to 3 of a kind as kongs and four of a kind as kangs!
It makes no use of the word "Chow" at all. 
Concealed 3 of a kind is called "Em-kong".
Visible 3 of a kind is called "Ming-kong"
These names seem completely unlike any of the usual names given by the other versions I have seen (HKOS, Chinese classical etc) which use "chows" and "pungs" and only use "kong" to describe FOUR of a kind which this booklet calls "Kangs"
Do you recognise which variant of the game the book is describing?
Thanks very much for any help you can give me. 
All the best.
Neal

Hi, Neal!
Valiant effort, but it's widely known (in English-speaking countries, anyway) that that free booklet is indecipherable. I've tried, too, but since I can't read "Chinglish*," and since I suspect that it was written by someone who did not know the game, and who simply translated someone else's series of Chinese words without an understanding of how English sentences are put together, I've been unable to get any farther than you have.
I have acquired many sets that include that booklet. It comes in a variety of different covers - I'm most familiar with the pink cover edition. It's been around for years, decades. It's unattributed*, so is effectively public domain (no royalties have to be paid by set manufacturers). Those manufacturers are themselves anonymous, which makes it hard to try to do anything about this deplorable state of affairs. I'm sure I've written about this before on this site, somewhere. My recommendation is, don't try any more to decipher it. It's probably a futile exercise.
* Politically incorrect, I'm sure. My bad.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 6, 2023
Donations appreciated

* P.S. 8/16/23: I came across a very old and weathered edition (same title, same contents) that says "Mee Sun Hong, HongKong" - but that's a company name, not an author's name. - Tom

Three people rolled a 7! Now what??

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 02:50:03 PM EDT, Anna Mae S wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Playing with a 5 th person as bettor we roll the dice to see who is the bettor for the first game of the day ( so they sit out first game). After establishing who is the bettor and which 4 are in the first game, we then roll to see who of the remaining 4, is East to start the first game.
So to establish who is the bettor the first person rolled a 5 then the next 4 people each rolled a 7!
So question is: does the person who rolled the 5 sit out and be the bettor, and the remaining 4 who each rolled a 7, and ( are in the first game) then roll to see who is East for the first game?
The person who rolled the 5 argued that she shouldn’t be out and that the 4 people who rolled 7’s should roll again to see if someone is lower than a 5.
Any precedence on this?
Thank you
Anna Mae
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Anna Mae!
The official rulebook does say you can roll dice to determine the dealer (high roller takes the deal), but the rulebook does not specify how to choose which of five players shall be the first bettor. You can certainly roll the dice to determine that.
It's completely up to the group to figure this out.
If you want to roll dice just once (rather than roll once to determine dealer and again to determine bettor), high roller could be first dealer and low roller could be first bettor. (Just a suggestion.)
What most people do when multiple players roll the same number is have them roll again until the matter is sorted out. You could also do paper-scissors-rock, draw straws, draw lots, flip coins...
It's completely up to the group to figure this out.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 6, 2023
Donations appreciated

Donation

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Thank you again, Evelyn!
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 7, 2023
Donations appreciated

Conflicting claims

Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 04:52:35 PM EDT, Hedy G wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
It was my turn to pick a tile. I was on call for MJ. I just needed a red. The player preceding me threw a 6 bam. As I picked I noticed it was a red dragon. I called MJ before I racked and at the same time the person to her left said she wanted that tile just as I had called MJ. It was decided that she gets the tile that she called and I couldn’t declare MJ. I accepted the call reluctantly. As it turned out the player who was again in turn to pick, thru the red anyway and I called MJ. What I’m wondering is, should I have been allowed to declare MJ as a self pick. Who was correct, the player who called for the tile almost at the same time that I said MJ or should I have been allowed to keep the tile and call MJ.
Thank you
Hedy G
Sent from my iPad

Hi, Hedy! Let me lay this out chronologically:
1. Player 1 threw 6B.
2. You picked from the wall and observed that the picked tile was your mahj tile.
3. Simultaneously, you said "mahj" and player 3 said "call."
3. Or then again, you said in your last sentence that player 3's call was "almost at the same time," so I honestly don't know if the two verbalizations really were simultaneous.
This conflicting situation is not covered by FAQ 19-H, FAQ 19-I, or FAQ 19-CL, but in my opinion, assuming that the two calls were spoken simultaneously, there should not have been any question as to which play should take precedence. The mahj call should have taken precedence, in my opinion.
Bear with me here...
FAQ 19-CL says, "if a call for a discard is spoken at the exact precise instant that the next-in-turn racks her picked tile from the wall (or if nobody can tell which came first), the caller gets the tile." The source of that ruling is a letter from the NMJL to Donna E on October 25, 2016 (there's a picture of the letter in FAQ 19).
But that ruling doesn't take into account the possibility that the picker has mah-jongg. There is a general principle that mah-jongg claims outweigh other claims. This principle is behind exceptions to other rules. I wrote about that in my reply to Debbie Barnett on Monday, March 27, 2023, titled "Many opinions on this scenario, part 2" (below).
Since Donna's letter only covers claims for the same thing, and doesn't take a mahj claim into account, I hold that the mahj claim should have taken precedence in your case.
You said "mahj" out loud, so that anybody could hear it. That means that if you accede to another player, and that player exposes and discards a tile other than your mahj tile (I'm not certain from your description that this is what happened), the next player after the caller is going to pick your mahj tile, and should know that it is your mahj tile and therefore shouldn't discard it. In other words, one person at the table will know your secret, and most probably would never throw your tile. That's part of the reason why your verbal claim of mahj should have been honored when you made it.
But, this is all just my opinion. You can only get an official ruling on this from the League, since this exact question has not been answered previously in writing, to the best of my knowledge.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 3, 2023
Donations appreciated

Oops, wrong tile, part 6

On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 03:14:25 PM EDT, Susan D wrote:
Re: Correcting Mistakes
Tom, I will certainly send you copies of the letters. As far as adding to or taking away from an exposure before discarding, I was under the impression that was regarding changing a kong to a pung, a pung to a kong, etc; not actions such as swapping a 5 Bam for a 6 Bam. Susan

Hi, Susan. Re your scenario #2, read the rule: it only says, "A player may add to or take away from the exposure." It doesn't say "may add jokers to or take away jokers from." I look forward to seeing those letters.
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 2, 2023
Donations appreciated

Oops, wrong tile, part 5

On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 12:12:59 PM EDT, Susan D wrote:
Correcting Mistakes
Several players in my community call me with questions regarding rules, so I strive to be accurate. I don't hesitate to write the NMJL with questions when I am not sure about an answer. I recently wrote two letters to the NMJL regarding correcting mistakes and received two conflicting responses. In the first letter I did not include the words "before discarding", but I don't think including the words really changes the ruling, so I am thoroughly confused.
Scenario #1: A player calls for a 5 Bam. The player exposes two 5 Bams from her hand, then picks up a 6 bam from the table and places it on her rack with the 5 Bams to make an exposure. Does the player have a dead hand or can she correct her mistake by returning the 6 Bam to the table and picking up the 5 Bam that was discarded?
Scenario #2 a player calls for a 5 Bam. The player exposes a 6 Bam and a Joker from his hand, then picks up a 5 Bam from the table to make an exposure. Does the player have a dead hand or can he correct his mistake by returning the 6 Bam to his hand and taking a 5 Bam from his hand and making a valid exposure?
In these two scenarios I assumed the person at the NMJL knew I meant 'BEFORE DISCARDING". I guess I shouldn't assume.
In both scenarios, the answer was that the hands were dead, and the mistakes could not be corrected.
Players wanted more clarification and asked that I write another letter and include the words "BEFORE DISCARDING".
The NMJL"s answer was very confusing. It stated that the answers remained constant. Then, they proceeded to say just the opposite; that the mistakes could be corrected.
I have ALWAYS thought that once a tile was taken from the table and placed on a player's rack, it could not be returned. I thought the same held true when exposing from your hand.
Susan D

Hi, Susan!
Apparently, our previous discussion in April ("Oops, wrong tile") isn't yet over. There were four parts to our previous discussion, all on Thursday, April 13.
Part 1, 12:38: I answered incorrectly about scenario #1. Oops!
Part 2, 2:35: I corrected my answer about scenario #1. The player may not correct the error: putting the wrong tile from the discard floor atop the rack is not rescindable.
Part 3, 4:00: You asked if there were never any exceptions. I said "never, EXCEPT if another person wanted the named discard for mah-jongg." (Possibly a disconnect with the actual question.)
Part 4, 5:20: Debbie Barnett corrected the answer I gave in part 1 (confirming what I wrote in part 2).

Scenario #1 is not correctable. The proof:

2007 newsletter. Ruth Unger wrote: "PLAYER CANNOT DECIDE THAT SHE DID NOT WANT THE TILE SHE CALLED FOR EXPOSURE[,] PUT THE DISCARD BACK ON THE TABLE AND THE OTHER TILES INTO HER RACK...A CALL FOR A TILE IS JUST LIKE A PICK FROM THE WALL, ONCE TAKEN...IT CANNOT BE PUT BACK."

That's my source for FAQ 19-AM.2:

...once you have either placed the taken discard atop the rack or exposed tiles from your hand, you have committed to making the play (then you have crossed the line, and you may not backtrack - it's too late)."

Scenario #2 IS a correctable act. The proof:

MJME p. 15 says: "A player may add to or take away from the exposure during this turn, as long as player has not discarded." This was also stated in the 2009 newsletter. Ruth Unger wrote: "You may add to the exposure or take away from the exposure AS LONG AS YOU HAVE NOT DISCARDED AS YET. Once you discard, you are committed to that exposure."

Those are my sources for FAQ 19-AF.

I'm glad you sent your questions in writing to the League. But I'm confused by your email today. You said:

In both scenarios, the answer was that the hands were dead, and the mistakes could not be corrected.

Then you said:

The NMJL"s answer was very confusing. It stated that the answers remained constant. Then, they proceeded to say just the opposite; that the mistakes could be corrected.

Are you saying that in one letter, the answer was that both mistakes were not correctable, and then the second letter said the opposite? Did you cite the first response in your second letter? Can you send me pictures of all four letters (your sent questions, and the replies you got back)? Can you send copies of all four letters back to the League and ask for a third response?
Play safe out there. And may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
July 2, 2023
Donations appreciated

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