What must I do when someone passes me a joker?
>From: Debbie
>Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:12 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>If someone passes a joker to me during the Charleston, which is against the rules, can I keep it or do I have to give it back?
>Thanks
Hi Debbie,
You're right, the rules should clearly state* the responsibility of the player who's on the receiving end of this illegal move.
Since they don't, this is a moral choice you're going to have to make.
Do you think she's aware that it's against the rules to pass that joker? If not, what'll happen when she finds out later that it was against the rules and you knew it -- what'll she think of you then? And if she's later informed of this by someone else, she might well blurt out that you'd knowingly cheated -- taking advantage of her ignorant rulebreaking. The rest of your group would then learn something about your character.
Do you think she's making a pairs hand and wants to get rid of that joker? Do you want to help her to win that hand?
Do you think she's trying to help you win? Do you want to be her "partner in crime" against the other two players?
To put it in other terms: If the car in front of you goes through a red light, do you follow on through as well?
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 7, 2009
*2018 update: the official rulebook now says you must pass it back if someone passes you a joker in the Charleston. Page 21, rule 9.
28 flowers!? (part 2)
>From: Carol
>Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 4:29:54 PM
>Subject: Re: 28 flowers?
>I can't believe I got such a rude answer from you. I bought my set almost a year ago, and just got around to asking you about it. I have to sell it--and many other things--due to a financial crisis, including many expenses for my son who has autism. To call me a "speculator" is uncalled for. In addition, the only reason I wanted to break up the set is that I thought there were extra tiles that did not even come with the original. Why should tiles that don't even belong with the set, sit around unused, when someone might be looking for some extra tiles to complete their set? To me, that would help several Mah Jong players. Obviously, if they all belong together, I would keep them together. You intentionally misunderstood me so you could give a mean answer.
Hi Carol, you wrote:
Obviously, if they all belong together, I would keep them together.
Oh good! Glad to hear it.
You intentionally misunderstood me so you could give a mean answer.
No. It sounded to me like you'd bought it on eBay with the purpose of re-selling it. If that was not what happened, then my bad.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 6, 2009
Is this set pre-1920's?
>From: Julie
>Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 7:20:25 AM
>Subject: old set from Hawaii
>I have an old Mah-Jongg set passed down through my family who lived in Hawaii at the turn of the century. The family had Chinese servants, and the story on this set is that it was given as a going-away present when the family moved to California in 1918. But your website says the early sets were produced around the 1920's, so that is confusing to the family story!
>
>The set is kept in a wooden box - red with brass hinges, corners, etc. No drawers or such so I assume the original box is lost. The lid slides on. The tiles are obviously bone and bamboo, with no jokers. I will attach photos. The set is complete and even has 7 extra tiles, which could be used as jokers if I buy one more. There is a small wooden box with sliding lid and 5 tiny dice, as well as 4 wooden round wind markers.
>
>Question - were any of these sets made before 1920? If so, then the family story is wrong and the set must have been purchased in the U.S.
>
>The family always thought this was bamboo and ivory, but through research on your website, I discovered that it is bone and not bamboo. Thanks for your thorough details and descriptions !
Hi Julie,
Read FAQ 7g and FAQs 11a & 11h.
Mah-Jongg wasn't popular outside of China yet, before Babcock did his thing.
Mah-Jongg sets weren't made for export yet, before Babcock.
Therefore mah-jongg sets were made for domestic (Chinese) use only, before Babcock.
How many Chinese would have needed the letters E, S, W, N on the wind tiles?
How many Chinese would have needed the numerals 1, 2, 3, 4... on the craks? (Why would anybody need numerals on the dots and bams, but let's pass over that!)
Therefore this set was not made during the period before sets were made for export.
Therefore this set was not made before the 1920s.
Anyone who's read those FAQs should see the infallibility of the logic in the above line of reasoning.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 6, 2009
28 flowers!?
>From: Carol C
>Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 2:16 PM
>Subject: 28 flowers?
>Hi, I purchased this Mah Jong set on Ebay. It seems the pretty usual Catalin set (all solid yellow) with the usual suits, winds, dragons, jokers, and blanks. But as you can see in the attached pic, there are 28 tiles that would all seem to be flower tiles. Since I have never heard of a set that uses that many, I am wondering if somehow tiles from other sets ended up here, or if this is something you've seen before.
>Also, since I am trying to sell this set with only the minimum flower tiles needed, and selling the others separately, how would you suggest dividing them (i.e. which 8 should I sell with the main set?)
>If you would like pictures of the whole set, let me know. I didn't want to overload your email unnessarily. Thank you for your help.
Hello Carol, you asked:
Since I have never heard of a set that uses that many, I am wondering if somehow tiles from other sets ended up here, or if this is something you've seen before.
Read Frequently Asked Question #19AI (above left) and read my column #311 (purple banner atop this page).
I am trying to sell this set with only the minimum flower tiles needed, and selling the others separately
I think it's a real shame that this interesting set was purchased by a speculator who's so ready and willing to cannibalize it and sell off its parts. Indiana Jones wouldn't approve either - he'd probably say "it belongs in a museum."
which 8 should I sell with the main set?
I am not going to help you disembowel it.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 5, 2009
How's that cruise?
>From: Judy F
>Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:47 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>I was thinking about going on the mah jongg cruise (Royal Carribean) but would like to hear feedback on the way it was run, game time, organization of the event etc. Thanks, Judy from Pa
Readers,
If you've been on that cruise, send in your thoughts and I'll post'em here.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 5, 2009
What does "only" mean? (FAQ 19AO)
From: "Rosemary
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:46 AM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> My mah-jongg question or comment is:
> (I am a beginner, so please forgive me if there is an obvious answer to this
> question that I am overlooking.) On the 2009 Card, the last (7th) hand under
> "2468," does the instruction that reads "Pung 8s only" mean that you CANNOT
> use Jokers in the Pungs of 8s, but that you CAN use them in the Pungs of 2s
> and 6s?
> Thanks so much! I just discovered your website yesterday, and am thoroughly
> enjoying the wealth of information!
> Rosemary
Hi Rosemary,
I'm glad you found my site. Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (there's a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this 
, pointing to them). Find the link to FAQ #19 (there's a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this 
, pointing to FAQs 16 and 19) and click it.
After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19.
The question "what does 'only' mean" is FAQ19AO.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 5, 2009
Joker strategy
>From: PenniPal
>Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 2:05 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Hi Tom,
>Love your book, your column, your humor, and your zest!
>I've got two questions related to Jokers from your book: Under Joker Strategy, you wrote, "If someone discards a joker or a redeemable tile, that's a clue that she may be working on Singles and Pairs." I understand that, of course, but what I don't understand is what is the significance of deducing it? What are we supposed to do (to play defensively) once we think someone's going for Singles and Pairs?
>Also, you were explaining how it isn't always a good idea to redeem a joker because you might be making someone jokerless, but what about taking the Joker and discarding it just to take it out of circulation for everybody else? How can we tell when we should consider leaving it alone as opposed to when to take it to discard it?
>Thanks for your time-
>:-)
>Penni
Hi Penni,
So glad you enjoy what I do. (^_^) You asked:
what is the significance of deducing it? What are we supposed to do (to play defensively) once we think someone's going for Singles and Pairs?
To back up a little bit. Before you made this brilliant deduction, she could have been playing in any of nine sections of the card. But now you've narrowed the possibilities down to one little corner of the card. Before, there was no question of trying to figure out what she was doing. But now, there are just six hands.
So look at the exposures and discards. Do you see more than two N's or S's? If so, she isn't doing hand #1. Do you see any white dragons? If so, she isn't doing hand #6. You're eliminating possibilities. And once you've started watching her, you get even more clues about what she's not playing.
The point of knowing what a person is or isn't doing is that now you know what tiles are hot. You know what tiles not to discard.
what about taking the Joker and discarding it just to take it out of circulation for everybody else? How can we tell when we should consider leaving it alone as opposed to when to take it to discard it?
Let's say an opponent has an exposure of 3D. Two naturals and one joker. There are two other 3D's on the table somewhere. If you have one of them, and you don't need it in your hand, there's still one other one somewhere on the table. On your turn, you can redeem your 3D and take that joker, thereby removing it from anybody else's grasp. Normally, you'd want to just keep that joker, wouldn't you? But if you didn't need it, then sure, you could just throw the joker away.
But let's say that instead of a pung, she has exposed a kong. Three naturals and one joker. There's one other 3D on the table somewhere. If it happens to be in your hand, then that joker is dead to everybody else for the remainder of the game. Period. If you don't need the 3D, and you also don't need the joker, you don't need to redeem the joker from her hand. You can just throw your 3D away. Then watch the howls of despair from all the others! Because there's nothing worse than watching somebody carelessly throw away something you desperately want. Now you haven't made her jokerless, and you've also played a mind game on the other players, possibly disrupting their concentration, poise, and strategy.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 3, 2009
Whatever happened to the section where you posted practice hands?
From: "Barbara
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 6:27 PM
Subject: Question about your site
> Hi, Tom. First, what a GREAT site!
> Second, you used to have a section where you posted practice hands and
> asked readers to guess what would be the
> best tiles to pass and keep. I got a lot out of that and was looking
> for it again tonight, but can't locate it.
> Have you discontinued that feature or am I just not looking in the
> right place?
> Thanks so much!
> Barbara in Houston
Hi Barbara,
I call that feature the "Weekly Mah-Jongg Strategy Column." (Clever disguise, eh?) You can get to it by clicking the purple banner atop this page.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 3, 2009
Erratum in the 2009 NMJL card, part 5 (Which applies: colored ink? Or the alphabet?)
>From: Linda
>Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 9:05:52 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>On the 2009 NMJL card – the last entry under 369 shows it as a concealed 35 cent hand but the “c” is red rather than black as in all the other “c”s. Which is it – an open hand or closed?
Hi Linda,
[Sarcasm alert! If you can't take a little good-natured sarcasm, do not read the following!]
So if you got the New York Times and the word "Times" was printed in some color other than black, you'd wonder if maybe it said "Post" instead of "Times"? (^_^) ...Of course it's a C!!
[End sarcasm alert. If you can't take a little sarcasm, do not read the foregoing.]
See the other posts on this topic, below. The color of the C is the least horrendous error on this year's NMJL card.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 2, 2009
How much is my set worth?
>From: Randy
>Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 7:33 PM
>Subject: worth?
>Dear Mr Sloper,
>I have a Mah Jong set that the family story was purchased by my Great Grandfather in San Francisco in the early 1900's. It has been around for as long as I can remmember and I was born in 1955. Using you guide, the tiles are made of bone and Bamboo, see photo 0402092124. The tiles are 1 3/16 inch long, 13/16 of an inch wide and 1/2 of an inch thick. The bone is about 1/8 of an inch thick and the bamboo 3/8 of an inch thick. The set has suit, Bamboo, Circle and Characters (cracks-of the older type). Each suit has four each of 1-9. There are four of each wind West, East, North and South. There are four green dragons, four red dragons and eightblank or white tiles. There are four flowers of two tiles each, 1,2,3,4. See photo 0402092054. Ther are a total of 148 tiles. There are four little round flat pieces we used as the player's wind that are in a little round pill box, see photo 0402092100. There are two very small dice, one slightly larger all of which look to be of bone, and two sets of more modern dice which I believe to be plastic. There are 36 counters with a single red dot, 8 with five red dots, 40 with two black dots, 36 with 20 black dots. All counters have the same dot on both sides and both ends. The set has two books, see photo 0402092055. The first is called Babcock's Rules for Mah-Jongg copyright 1920 and 1922, photo 0402092059 and 0402092058a. The second book is called Pung Chow and its copyright is 1922, photo 0402092058. The storage box has a slide on the front that drops down for storage and lifts up to remove the trays, photo 0402092103. It is made of wood with a brass swivel handle.
Hi Randy,
Just now I went back into FAQ 7h and highlighted the word "condition" throughout. Nobody ever tells me the CONDITION of the sets they ask me to evaluate! And the condition is IMPORTANT!! [End brief rant.]
Your set is a Babcock Mah-Jongg® set (see box front), not a Pung Chow set. Your GGF apparently bought the Pung Chow book separately. Too bad your Little Red Book is in such poor condition -- that reduces the value of the set. The blue and red dice don't belong with the set, but you can leave them in it (they don't affect the value either way).
The box is atypical of most Babcock sets - most are red wood, not black. Your Eight Dot tiles are the fairly rare red type (not the usual blue). And your red and green dragon tiles are the less-common "phoenix" and "dragon" type. All the sticks are there. These aspects of your set add to its value.
The bone of the tile in your closeup shows Haversian system (see FAQ 7c), which is neither good nor bad necessarily. If this tile is typical of the set (and all the tiles are uniformly Haversian), then that's okay. Not great. Not horrible. Just okay.
You didn't tell me anything about the condition of your set, but it looks like the condition is reasonable (except for the Little Red Book). I said in FAQ 7h that your set is worth somewhere between $80 and $500. This set is probably worth a bit more than $100. Probably no more than $175. (Your mileage may vary.)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 2, 2009
A tile was misnamed and then an error occurred (part 2)
>From: "JDBASSOC
>Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 4:10:07 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Hello it's Marie again about the misnamed tile.
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>What happens if a misnamed tile is called and the player exposes her tiles and then the misnamed tile is discovered? It seems unfair for the player to put her tiles back in her rack, because that puts her at a disadvantage.
>Thanks for your help. I love your site.
>Marie
Hi Marie, you wrote:
What happens [to the claimant of a discard] if a misnamed tile is called and the player exposes her tiles and then the misnamed tile is discovered?
Obviously the exposure cannot be completed. The claimant must put her tiles back on her rack. She has no other choice that I can see. What do you think ought to happen?
It seems unfair for the player to put her tiles back in her rack, because that puts her at a disadvantage.
I disagree with you. You say it's "unfair." I say she got off easy. She ought to be declared dead, in my opinion, but the NMJL rules do not specify that as a penalty. Consider: she's not exactly innocent in this cascade of errors! She should have looked at the discard before calling for it -- much less exposing her own tiles.
All too many players of American mah-jongg play by ear while their eyes are on only their own tiles. If you jump without looking first, it's your own darned fault if you discover afterwards that the discard had been misnamed.
In many countries, and when playing many other mah-jongg variants, players do not speak the name of the discard. You have to watch the discards.
Marie, I want to thank you for asking an interesting question! This one isn't covered in sufficient detail in the official rulebook. I suggest that common sense and the principle of harmony are good guides for us when encountering loopholes in the rules. Read FAQ 9 for further thoughts that may be of interest along these lines.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 2, 2009
Those confusing joker rules!
From: "Bobbi
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:26 AM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> My mah-jongg question or comment is: I was playing yesterday and a
> friend called a 7 crak and racked it with a joker and another 7 crak.
> She realized after another person played that she did not mean to use
> her joker, for she had another 7 crak in her hand. We decided that she
> should wait until it was her turn and then she could exchange it, like
> any other player would do after she drew (others disagreed). Then the
> person before her discarded a 5 crak ( of which Marilyn needed 4-she had
> 2 so she wanted to use the joker to pick up the 5. Needless to say she
> did not want to draw. Problem # 2: I was attempting an 11 hand
> that need 48. I picked up an 8 and used my Joker to make the 4-knowing
> that my 48 needed to be natural (as singles). We were down to the last
> wall so I decided to try an easier Maj. Could I, when it was my turn,
> exchange my 8 for my own joker? I say yes. Someone else said "no".
> Your help would be sincerely appreciated. We have been playing every
> Tuesday for 3 years and this has never happened. What fun we have!!
> The very best game in the whole wide world.
Hi Bobbi,
Essentially, you are asking:
1. When can I redeem a joker? Can I redeem a joker when it's not my turn?
2. Can I redeem a joker atop my own rack?
3. Jokers are wild, so they can be used for ANYthing, right? (Can I use a joker to make a single or a pair?)
These Frequently Asked Questions are already answered in two places: on the back of your card and in FAQ 19 on my website. Turn your card over and read the back. Go to http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/mjfaq19.htm and read questions E, F, and M.
Your group is sorely in need of a refresher course on the rules of American mah-jongg, especially those confusing joker rules. The group should chip in and buy the official rulebook from the League, and a copy of my book. Seriously, shameless plugging aside, every group should have a rulebook handy for when this sort of question arises. My book is more complete than the rulebook, since the rulebook's updates come in the yearly bulletin and the rulebook itself hasn't been updated in 25 years.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 2, 2009
Frequently Asked Question #19E
>From: Alicia
>Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 6:15:50 AM
>Subject: question
>My questions concern the new 2009 card under "Singles and Pairs".
>The next to the last hand which is "223 22334 223344 (Start same No. Any 3 Consec. Nos; Any 3 Suits)". Can you use Jokers to fulfill this closed hand as long as you use three suits?
>Also, the last hand on the card "FF 2009 NEWS 2009 (1 or 2 Suits, 2 and 9 Same Suit)". Can you use Jokers to fulfill this hand when writing NEWS?
>Thank you for answering my questions. I am a very new player.
>A. H
Welcome, Alicia.
Your mah-jongg teacher neglected to teach you the correct meaning of the terms "pung," "kong," "quint," and "sextet" when she taught you how to play the game. She also didn't tell you the basic rules governing joker usage.
But you're in luck -- all those things are defined for you right on the back of your card. Just turn the card over and read the back.
Also, this website has all the answers already written out. Check them before asking me. Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (there's a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this , pointing to them). Find the link to FAQ #19 (there's a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this , pointing to FAQs 16 and 19) and click it.
After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19.
In the case of the question you have asked, read FAQ 19E.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April 2, 2009
Is she dead if she changes her mind?
>From: Herb and Cheryl
>Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 8:43:46 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>A player calls for a discarded tile, exposes 3 tiles from her hand without picking up the discarded tile, then decides that she does not want the discarded tile and places the exposed tile back into her hand - is her hand then "dead"?
>Thanks for your help!
>Cheryl
Hi Cheryl,
No, she's not dead yet. Her having made the exposure committed her to making the exposure. The game can't continue until she completes the move. Read the "Change of Heart" rules in FAQ 19, above left (FAQ 19AM & FAQ 19B).
If (1) she refuses to complete the exposure, or if (2) she can't complete the move (because it's a mismatch, like a flower with one bams for instance, or because she doesn't have enough tiles to make a legal exposure), or (provided she's the next player in turn from the player who discarded the tile in question), if (3) she subsequently put the discard back and picked from the wall and threw a discard, then she should be called dead.
But in reality, unless it's a tournament situation, most groups permit some leeway among the players since it's just a friendly game. If she's a beginner she might get some leeway. If she's a habitual offender she might be called dead. If she's a Yelda (column #387), she probably rules the roost and can do whatever she wants.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April Fool's Day, 2009
Value of all-bone tiles (and ivory too)
>From: Martha Y
>Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 8:18:31 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: Hello Tom, love your website, love your book, I'm addicted. Can you tell me (roughly) the value of
>mah jong tiles which are 100% Bone (no Bamboo) or----is there such a thing? And......roughly the value of 100% ivory tiles (no bamboo).
>Thank you! Martha Y
Hi Martha, you wrote:
Can you tell me (roughly) the value of
>mah jong tiles which are 100% Bone (no Bamboo)
It depends on completeness, condition, and beauty of the set. Read FAQ 7h. Trying to tell you the value of a hypothetical set of unknown completeness, unknown condition, and unknown beauty is a fool's errand.
or----is there such a thing?
I've never seen one or heard of one. That doesn't mean there isn't such a thing. But I can tell you that in the 1920s, China ran out of cow shinbone and it had to be imported from the United States in order to be able to keep up with manufacturing.
And......roughly the value of 100% ivory tiles
No, I can't give you that either. NY Findings is still selling (as far as I know) their miniature ivory sets for what amounts to $1/tile. But their tiles are tiny in the extreme. The problem with ivory is that every seller of bone tiles on eBay calls them ivory, most sellers and buyers can't tell the difference, and it's extremely difficult to collect reliable figures on them. Completeness, condition, and beauty are still factors.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
April Fool's Day, 2009
Can I do two questions?
>From: Ellen
>Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:48 PM
>Subject: Mahj Questions
>Tom,
>Your website is wonderful, and a great resource. Thank you for all your time and effort to keep us mahj players "honest."
>Okay, new question: One of the players picked a tile from the wall, sort of. She took it from the wall, slid it across the table towards her rack (without picking it up), and then tilted it upwards so she could see what it was. She never lifted it from the table. So, is this considered a "down" tile from the get go, and therefore there was no "window of opportunity" to call the discard? Or what?
>The other question has to do with a question on the bulletin board. The original question and your answer follows below, but I don't get your 1-6 answers. You said that you call the discard for mahj, pick up the tile needed for a pair, and THEN (not shouting, just emphasizing), exchange the tile from your hand for the exposed joker, and complete the mahj. Is that right, because it doesn't sound right to me? When you call the tile for the pair, you don't yet have mah jongg, because the other 13 tiles in your hand don't complete the mah jongg. Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? Don't you have to have ALL (emphasis only) the other 13 tiles in your hand before you call a discard for mahj? I'm so confused!
>Thanks again for your help.
>Ellen
Hi Ellen,
Thanks for the kind words you started with. You asked:
One of the players picked a tile from the wall, sort of. She took it from the wall, slid it across the table towards her rack (without picking it up), and then tilted it upwards so she could see what it was. She never lifted it from the table. So, is this considered a "down" tile from the get go, and therefore there was no "window of opportunity" to call the discard? Or what?
This is one of those bad habits I see some people do. As persnickety as I am, though, I've never called anybody on it. Because I prefer to keep the game harmonious. If she was my student and she did this while I was teaching her how to play, I'd discourage her from doing this. But since she's already developed this bad habit, I'd keep my opinion to myself. She's probably played the game longer than I have (maybe even longer than I've been alive!).
The other question has to do with a question on the bulletin board. The original question and your answer follows below, but I don't get your 1-6 answers.
You're referring to the post, "Can you do two moves?" from Mary J., posted Thursday, January 29.
You said that you call the discard for mahj, pick up the tile needed for a pair, and THEN (not shouting, just emphasizing), exchange the tile from your hand for the exposed joker, and complete the mahj. Is that right
I said it because it's right.
because it doesn't sound right to me? When you call the tile for the pair, you don't yet have mah jongg, because the other 13 tiles in your hand don't complete the mah jongg.
You DO have mah-jongg, because the joker replacement tile is in your hand -- therefore the discarded tile completes the hand.
If you don't believe that this is a legal play, you should send your question in a self-addressed stamped envelope to the NMJL. The address is on the card.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 31, 2009
[Note: Ellen did contact the League. See the April 30 entry in this thread, farther above. - Tom]
Winning on a concealed hand in American mah-jongg
>From: Cindy
>Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:16 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: If you are going for a closed hand, can you pick a discard tile for Mah Jongg or must your Mah Jongg tile be drawn from a wall?
>Cindy :)
>Cindy
Hi Cindy,
You need to read FAQs 19AQ, 19E3, & 19Y. After you read those three things, you'll have a complete answer to your question. The FAQs are above left (there's a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this , pointing to them). Find the link to FAQ #19 (there's a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this , pointing to FAQs 16 and 19) and click it.
After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 31, 2009
A tile was misnamed and then an error occurred. What now?
>From: JDBASSOC
>Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:12 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>A tile is miscalled when it is discarded. Another player calls for it and exposes her tiles (not for mahjongg). The miscalled tile is detected at that time. Does the exposed tiles remain or are they put back and the miscalled tile discarded?
>Thanks for your help.
>Marie
Hi Marie, you wrote:
A tile is miscalled ... Another player calls for it
See, I think it's confusing to use the same word to mean two different things. In this case, the problem is the word "call." I wrote about this in column #353.
Saying a tile's name while discarding it should be referred to as "naming" it - not "calling" it. Because the term "call" usually refers to the claiming of a discard for exposure or mah-jongg. What you mean to say is, "A tile was misnamed, and another player called for it." Most of the time, other players will get your meaning from context. But ambiguous terms can sometimes lead to confusion; confusion can lead to conflict and disharmony. And we don't want that!
and exposes her tiles (not for mahjongg). The miscalled tile is detected at that time. Does the exposed tiles remain or are they put back and the miscalled tile discarded?
This is answered in FAQ 19AY.
Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (there's a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this , pointing to them). Find the link to FAQ #19 (there's a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this , pointing to FAQs 16 and 19) and click it.
After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 31, 2009
Question about the new NMJL card, part 2
>From: The Tomers
>Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:46:00 AM
>Subject: RE: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Gotcha
>Thanks
>Arlene
Oh, good! (^_^)
My next question would have been "is there a parenthetical? If so, what does it say?"
(I still haven't gotten my 2009 card in the mail yet.)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 31, 2009
It says "any," but it's in color! Which applies: colored ink? Or the English language?
>From: Greg
>Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:13:25 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: Hi Tom. Our Monday Night group has a question about the third hand under 2009. It is stating Kong Green & Red Dr. Only, Any 2 and 9 Same Suit. Following the rules and reading on the back of the card, it states three colors, three suites. So we are assuming, and you know what happens when you assume, that the 2 and 9 should be Dots only. I know it says "Any", but it seems to us with the three colors, it has to be "Dots". Are we reading this correctly, or we way off base?
>Greg D., Gadsden, AL
>Disclaimer: This electronic message may contain information that is Proprietary, Confidential, or legally privileged or protected. It is intended only for the use of the individual(s) and entity named in the message. If you are not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender immediately and delete the material from your computer. Do not deliver, distribute or copy this message and do not disclose its contents or take any action in reliance on the information it contains.
Hi Greg,
If colored ink trumps the English language, we're in trouble this year -- given the brouhaha about the miscolored "C" on the 2009 card. (Scroll down and read the posts entitled "Erratum in the 2009 NMJL card.")
To read your answer: Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (there's a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this , pointing to them). Find the link to FAQ #19 (there's a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this , pointing to FAQs 16 and 19) and click it.
After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19.
In the case of the question you have asked, read FAQs 19AE & 19J. If the wording of the answers is unclear, please let me know how I can improve the wording of the answer for future askers of this question.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 31, 2009
Disclaimer: "When you email me, I own it." The price of the information I give is that it is given only in this public forum. Emailing me with a question or comment on this topic constitutes permission for your email to be made public. (Business inquiries and scholar/journalist queries are of course treated with all due confidentiality.) For reader enjoyment, humor is sometimes used in the responses that I give. Please don't be offended by a response given in the spirit of reader enlightenment and entertainment. This site is NOT associated with the National Mah Jongg League. Although questions about their card and rules are welcome here, please read FAQ 16 and FAQ 19 to see if your question has already been answered.
What the heck are "opposing dragons"?
>From: Diane
>Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:39 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>111 22 333 DDD DDD
>On the 2009/7/6 cards,under Consecutive Run, the last one in this section, the parenthetical states "Any 3 Consec. Nos., Any 3 Suits, Pungs Opp. Dragons". What does "Pungs Opp. Dragons" mean? We have been searching for a definitive answer to this question for 3 years!
>Thanks,
>Diane
>Ballwin, MO
Hi Diane,
You know what "matching dragons" are, because that's explained on the back of the card. So you know which dragons "match" which suits. Right? So, if a hand containing D's is shown in all one color, you know that you're supposed to use "matching dragons" in that hand.
Following me so far?
Check the color-coding on this one. It's not shown in one color, it's shown in three colors. You know what three colors means, since that's explained on the back of the card too.
So therefore, you know you shouldn't be using "matching dragons" with this hand. You should be using... "opposing dragons" ...instead.
Snap quiz:
For the above tiles, which of the following shows "opposing dragons"?
Hope you don't mind my quirky way of answering. It's my teaching the readers how to fish.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 30, 2009
Is our table rule acceptable, and if so, how should it work?
>From: Scotty
>Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:21:32 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Our 13 tile Chinese mah-jongg group has been together 7 years. From time
>to time we embelish the scoring or add group conventions - after much
>discussion. From somewhere came the idea that after winning a second
>consecutive game, the dealer could put "one up" granting an additional point
>that could be included in going mah-jongg. Recently, it switched to putting
>"one up" after the first win and an additional "one up" for each consecutive
>win. Do you think this is an acceptable practice and, if so, should the
>advantage be given after the first or second win?
>Thank you
>Scotty
Hi Scotty,
You asked:
1. Do you think this is an acceptable practice
2. if so, should the advantage be given after the first or second win?
As for your question #1, your group can do whatever your group likes, as I wrote in FAQ 14. If it adds to your enjoyment, who am I to say it's not "acceptable"?
Question #2 is a bit trickier.
You wrote that you play "13 tile Chinese mah-jongg." I don't know which variant that is. I don't know what scoring system you use - if it's points then doubles (Classic), or just points (Modern Competition Rules), or just doubles (Hong Kong), or what. See FAQ 2b, above left.
You also wrote that the dealer "puts 'one up'" for every win he scores as dealer. But I don't know how that works - I don't know "one" of what, and I don't know what that does to the score.
So I can't answer your question #2. Not enough information! In Japanese mah-jongg, the dealer puts up a marker every time he scores as dealer, but this is only used to tally the number of wins. After 5 dealer wins, the minimum required score (the "qualifier" to make mah-jongg) increases from 1 fan to 2 fan. That's a bit different from the table rule your group has adopted, but it's based on a related idea.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 30, 2009
Question about the new NMJL card
>From: The Tomers
>Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 3:56 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: Regarding the 2009 card: The second hand under Quints. – Any 3 Consecutive numbers – Is it one suit or can it be 2 or 3 suits?
>Thank you
>Arlene
How many colors is it?
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 30, 2009
Running a tournament
>From: Hidetoshi Nakamura
>Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:36 PM
>Subject: System of Mahjong Tournaments
>Hi,
>I need some information about system for Mahjong tournaments. I mean, a way of choosing people, where the same persons don't continue playing at the same tables. The most important thing is what should be done if the number of players isn't the multiple of 4 (eg. 10 players)? If there is some computer program, which create that system and show me how to deal with it? Thank you for the answer and help.
>Dominik
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Czy już jesteś w Yahoo!?
>Masz dosyć spamu? Poczta Yahoo! dysponuje najlepszą ochroną przed spamem
>http://pl.mail.yahoo.com
Konnichiwa Dominik (Or should I say, Dzien dobry Nakamura-san) (^_^)
I addressed the topic of table rotation in FAQ 21:
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/mjfaq21.htm
And I recently had someone ask me about how to handle uneven numbers of players. I answered the question on my bulletin board:
http://www.sloperama.com/majexchange/bulletinbd.htm
Scroll down to March 17, topic "(1) They don't like 3P! (2) How to rotate tables?"
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 30, 2009
the little specks might mean "end of the day" plastic, part 3
>From: Sylvain Malbec
>Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:13 AM
>Subject: "end of the day" tile set
>Hello Tom,
>I have some request for Jean and her "end of the day" tiles :
>
>Hello Jean,
>I would like to have more information about your set.
>For this can you please send photos of :
>1) ALL tiles in the set, like this one : http://www.sloperama.com/images/antique1.jpg
>2) A big view of some tiles, expecialy pandas, worm-like creatures, 1 dot, 1 bambou and green dragon (and flowers and other animals, if any).
>3) A big view of tiles showing these "tiny blackish-brownish specks", "might be some lamination" and "saw cuts criss cross". It would be nice to have a view of each side of the tiles.
>May I sugest you to take photos under sun light rather than electric light?
>Distinguish marks like these specks are very surprising in a non-natural material, unless it's a very very cheap material.
>Gold paint and 4 colors drawing would indicate an high quality tile set, but the (apparently) poor base material indicate the opposite.
>Most tiles in your pictures are unusual. Did I see a rooster, pandas, phoenix and worms?
>One of them must be the 1 bambou (may be the rooster?) and some of them flowers (pandas and worms?).
>But flowers have numbers or chinese writing, and they have not.
>So your set is very interesting.
>
>Thanks.
>--
>Sylvain MALBEC
Bonjour Sylvain,
I agree that Jean's set is worth knowing more about. I'll let her know she needs to come back and see this continuation of her thread.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 30, 2009
Erratum in the 2009 NMJL card, part 4
>From: Bill
>Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 3:10:02 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>The 2009 card-369, the last hand is concealed. Is ther a reason the "C" is in red? Is it a mis-print? Should it be a red "X" or a black "C"?
>Thanks,
>Mary
>Surprise, AZ
Hi Mary,
What difference could it make what color the C is? "Concealed, except on Sundays" maybe? (^_^) I imagine not.
See the other posts on this topic, below.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 29, 2009
Erratum in the 2009 NMJL card, part 3
From: "jrthom223
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 10:05:09 AM
Subject: Re: mah-jongg card
error, on small card, (seven hands) should read (eleven hands)
ffff 3333+8888=11 or ffff 5555+6666=11
Rita T
Really?? Wow, that is news! Thanks for the heads-up.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 28, 2009
the little specks might mean "end of the day" plastic, part 2
>From: Jean
>Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:51:23 PM
>Subject: Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Hi Tom, Thanks for your email and your wonderful website and terrific information. I'm not sure if I was supposed to do the clarifications you suggested by email (like this) or if I was supposed to use the comments on the board. Anyhow by "end of the day" plastic I meant something similar to "end of day" blown glass (antique term) where the glass left over in the manufacturing process is all mixed together at end of the day and objects are created with leftovers, sort of like recycling. I think that was done with plastic too, but not sure when or where. The specks are random, in size and color and spacing, something like an bird's egg. My focus question should have been "have you seen a material like this before and if so, what is it? and when was it made?" I guess you answered it when you said "me neither" ha! Glad you liked the pandas. I liked your chimp! thanks again, jean
Hi Jean,
I doubt that a practice that was used in antique glassmaking has a lot to do with practices used in plastic manufacturing.
It's obvious that the set was not made for export - it was made for sale in China. Surprising that after going to extra effort to design pretty new designs, and applying gold touches, the tiles were cut out cheaply and not polished/smoothed.
A couple of things I wonder about:
- The uniformity of size of the tiles. Non-uniformity is another indication of cost-cutting in the manufacturing process.
- And I'm very surprised you didn't ask anything about the identification of the specific tile designs. Your pandas, and the tiles with the gold swirly-wormy thingies. Apparently you are not confused as to what each tile is. But I don't share your nonconfusion. Laying out your tiles (as I always lay them out in the FAQs) is the best way to see exactly what tiles are what.
As to age, the only clue I have is the vinyl carrying case. Vinyl has fallen out of favor as a carrying case material of late. But it was used widely in Chinese-made sets for a few decades (ending in the 1990's). Since you can touch the case, you know if it feels supple and new, or stiff and old (but I can't - all I have to go on is a single tiny photo). You can tell if it smells new or old, but I can't.
Oh - and two more mysteries:
- Why you called it "vintage"
- Why you referred to it as a traveling set
But, all said and done, it seems to be a nice collectible (unusual) set.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 28, 2009
Erratum in the 2009 NMJL card, redux
>From: "jrthom223
>Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 6:36:34 AM
>Subject: mah-jongg card
>ERROR on369 last row (any 3 suits) RED (C)
>thank you for ( seven hands ) oops!!eleven hands .
>Rita T
Hi Rita, you wrote:
ERROR on369 last row (any 3 suits) RED (C)
Sorry, Rita. Arlene already broke this shocking (yawn) news yesterday. Scroll down and see.
thank you for ( seven hands ) oops!!eleven hands .
What a mysterious (and bizarre) thing to say. Maybe I'll understand your meaning when I get my card.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 28, 2009
the little specks might mean "end of the day" plastic, recycled to make mah jong tiles, but I know this set to be old so I don't know if that's an option or not.
>From: Jean
>Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 6:02:23 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: I have a vintage mah jong traveling (?) set that I think is plastic or a bone composite, it's not bakelite (tested with simichrome) . The tiles are yellowish beige, gold paint highlighted, cut with a saw on the sides, I think, slightly beveled around the edges, and the plastic? has tiny blackish-brownish specks in it. The good part is I have the original plastic case which has a panda and Chinese ?) writing on top. The tiles measure 26mm x 20mm x 10mm. The plastic looks solid but there might be some lamination in the plastic, not sure. The saw cuts criss cross or striate on the sides. My photos aren't very good but maybe you can tell something about these tiles from them or maybe the case might help in identifying the set. I've seen a lot of mah jong sets but not one like this. If I were to guess I'd say that the little specks might mean "end of the day" plastic, recycled to make mah jong tiles, but I know this set to be old so I don't know if that's an option or not. Hope you can help, thanks a bunch, Jean
Hi Jean, you wrote:
it's not bakelite (tested with simichrome)
I have no idea what that is, but in general I disapprove of the idea of applying chemicals to one's tiles since it can cause damage.
the plastic? has tiny blackish-brownish specks in it.
Interesting and novel. If the specks are somewhat uniform, I'd have to say they're intentional, and it is plastic. I don't know of any natural material that has those specks in it.
I have the original plastic case which has a panda and Chinese ?) writing on top.
Yes, it's Chinese writing.
My photos aren't very good
Main problem is their small size. Yes, I need them to be small for the purposes of not taking up too much space on my webhost's server, but they're so small I don't see any detail!
maybe you can tell something about these tiles from them or maybe the case might help in identifying the set.
It might, if the photo was bigger. But most likely, the writing just says "China Majiang," which doesn't give us any clues whatsoever.
I've seen a lot of mah jong sets but not one like this.
Me neither. The pandas are particularly charming!
the little specks might mean "end of the day" plastic, recycled to make mah jong tiles, but I know this set to be old so I don't know if that's an option or not.
(^_^) Not sure what you're saying there...?
Hope you can help
I wish I could, but I don't know what you're asking. Read FAQ 7p and please ask me a focused question so I know what my assignment is. No guarantee I can make you happy, though... :-p
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 27, 2009
Erratum in your book
>From: Donna
>Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:50:24 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg comment is:
>I believe there is an error on page 51 of The Red Dragin & The West Wind
>51. Picking the tile, (it should read)
>she should bring the TILE behind her rack INSTEAD of she should bring the WALL behind her rack
>and examine it or rack it ......
>Donna
Good eye, Donna!
I've added that to the Errata file at http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/rdww.htm - someday if the book gets a 2nd edition, that'll definitely be fixed, thanks to you!
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 27, 2009
Erratum in the 2009 NMJL card
>From: "Amcxyz
>Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:28:59 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Tom Sloper just an FYI
>Called NMJL today about misprint in 2009 card.
>369 section last hand although in red c not blue, this hand is indeed closed.
>Arlene
>Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for under $10.
Thanks, Arlene.
I'll alert the world! (^_^)
(And... You're the second person I've heard from who's already received her 2009 card.)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
San Francisco, CA (USA)
March 27, 2009
Those confusing joker rules...
>From: Carol Ann
>Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:57:04 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Can a joker be used in a pair if it is to declare mahjongg. Some of the players I play with say that its the only time it can be used in a pair. Thanks
Hi Carol Ann,
Read the back of your NMJL card very carefully. The rule is stated very clearly there. I'm away from home as I write this, so I don't have the card to quote you and dissect with you. But I'm pretty sure you'll find the word "never" in there. Is it? Does it happen to be in bold type, or in all caps, or underlined, by any chance? (^_^)
If what it says on the back of the card is unclear in any way, please send me the exact wording and tell me precisely what you find unclear about it, and I'll work with you to make sure it's clarified. I promise. Or you can read FAQ 19E (the FAQs are above left).
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 26, 2009
Another question
>From: Dawn
>Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:32:09 AM
>Subject: RE: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Another question.
>First Charleston done. Player 1 and 2 start their 2nd Charleston. 1 player picks up the tiles and looks at them. Then player 3 says I don’t want to do 2nd Charleston. Can she stop at this point? Do we just back up? This was during tournament play at the temple. Thanks!
Hi Dawn,
Please scroll up and find the links to the Frequently Asked Questions (there's a blue and yellow flashing arrow, emblazoned "READ 1ST," like this , pointing to them). Find the link to FAQ #19 (there's a red, white, and blue flashing arrow, emblazoned "AMERICAN," like this , pointing to FAQ 19) and click it.
After you've landed at the FAQ 19 page, please bookmark it so you can easily return to it anytime you have a mah-jongg question. Answers to all of the most frequently-asked questions about American (NMJL) mah-jongg are found in FAQ 19.
In the case of the question you have asked, look for the question entitled "When can I stop the Charleston?"
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 23, 2009
Can she change her mind? Or is the tile already "down"?
>From: Dawn
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:37:57 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Player 1 has 2 4 dots exposed with a joker. Play passes around the table to Player 4. She picks a tile to start her turn, racks it and picks up the 4 dot out of her rack and says 4 dot and has the tile face up. On her way to putting on the table she sees the exposed 4 dot at Player 1 and wants to exchange the joker. The tile never hit the table it was still her turn. Some women at the table thought her intention was to discard that tile. It should have to be played Others thought it was still her turn she should be able to exchange. What's the really story?
>Thanks
>Midwest Mah Jongg Player
Hi Midwest Dawn,
"Change of heart" questions are among the most "Frequently Asked Questions" ("FAQs") about American-style mah-jongg. You have asked Frequently Asked Questions #19A & B. Please scroll up and find the links to the FAQs, above left. Click FAQ 19. Bookmark the page for your future reference. Scroll down and find the answer to this question. If the wording of the answer is unclear, please let me know what information is missing, so that I can improve the wording of the answer for future askers of this question.
Cheers from London Heathrow Airport!
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
London, England
March 23, 2009
>From: "LI2MARCO©aol.com"
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:36:39 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>I am hosting a mahjongg tournament cruise in Nov. 2009 roundtrip Ft. Lauderdale. The cost is extremely good and the tournament will be held during the 2 days at sea. For information, please visit our website at:
>www.mahjongatsea.com
>Thank you for your time.
>Regards,
>Linda Galenskas
Is everybody else right? Or is she right?
>From: "Marty
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:15:29 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>I called a discard for Maj. Discovered I was wrong and had exposed my hand...which is now dead.
>The person who's turn was skipped insisted that she got her turn back. The rest of the table said no....the person to my right had the next turn.
>Which is correct.
>Thanks
>Marty
Hi Marty,
Don't you love these players who make up rules based on their notion that the world ought to always treat them as special? (^_^) I wrote about such players in column #387. (Hint: I'm saying everybody else is right... not her. Once you called the tile, her turn was gone.)
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Mumbai (Bombay), India
March 22, 2009
Is it a valid jokerless hand if she had a joker at one time?
>From: Rachel
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:58:40 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Player 'A' exposes a pung or kong using a joker tile. During play the joker is redeemed for a symbol tile. Player 'A' calls Mah Jongg and now shows no jokers in her hand. Is the hand jokerless?
>I read in a 1984 set of rules that it was not jokerless, as a joker had previously been used during exposure. However, I cannot find when the latest set of NMJL rules were published or any further clarification of my query on the internet. I am a new player and therefore subjected to a variety of conflicting 'table' rules by my new colleagues!
>Many thanks
>Rachel Snell
Hi Rachel, you wrote:
I read in a 1984 set of rules
Yeah, well, that is the latest publication from the League...
that it was not jokerless, as a joker had previously been used during exposure.
That rule has been changed since 1984. Now the rule is: as long as there are no jokers in the hand at the time of mahj declaration, the hand is jokerless, and earns double. No matter what your new colleagues tell you. But they won't buy the truth from you. You'll have to show them proof, if you want to buck their "authority." But more on this below...
I cannot find when the latest set of NMJL rules were published
There are two ways to keep up-to-date on the latest rules:
Buy my book. 2007 is a lot more recent than 1984. (^_^)
Buy your card direct from the League. Every January they send the latest rule refinements to their whole mailing list. You need to be on their mailing list, and you need to read the yearly bulletin, and you need to keep the yearly bulletins.
I am a new player and therefore subjected to a variety of conflicting 'table' rules by my new colleagues!
Yes, that happens a lot. Read FAQ 14 -- and check out my weekly column too. You can't tell your new colleagues that their table rules are wrong. They outnumber you.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Mumbai (Bombay), India
March 20, 2009
(1) They don't like 3P! (2) How to rotate tables?
>From: Diane
>Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:41:35 PM
>Subject: Mah Jongg Help
>Hi Tom, we all value your opinion so here’s the problem.
>We play strictly by the National Maj League Rules.
>Our little group has grown to 25 or so each week.
>If possible we rotate in the extra players if there are 2 extra players.
>The problem is that some of the ladies don’t like to play 3. Sometimes we don’t have an even number. Last week we had 19 players—4 tables of 4 and 1 table of 3.
> I have said if you don’t want to play three then find another group. The problem comes with the rotation and who changes tables and when. It is causing a lot of confusion and unhappiness with our group. Should we have just rotated in constantly with the extra 3 players?
>Do you have any ideas for this?
>And, what would you suggest for rotating tables with even numbers.
>Any help you can give will be appreciated!
>Thanks
>Diane [deleted]
>[address deleted]
>Tucson, AZ
Hi Diane,
So you had a couple of questions about your multi-table group:
(Paraphrased) How do we deal with an odd number of players when nobody wants to play 3 at a table?
I don't like 3 either, so I don't blame them. 5 is better than 3. So when you had 4 tables of 4 and 1 table of 3, you could have instead had 3 tables of 5 and 1 table of 4. See FAQ 13a for how to play with 5. (No need to bet with 5 if anybody doesn't like the betting thing, it adds time to a game and also adds to the money thing). Please scroll up and find the links to the FAQs, above left.
And, what would you suggest for rotating tables with even numbers.
You're talking about mixing up the players at the tables (not just rearranging players at one table). I discussed this in FAQ 21 - look for the paragraph that starts "You need an East marker on the east wall..." (beneath the photo of Bill Nachenberg at his scoring computer and above the photo of Judi Nachenberg presiding over the stuff-for-sale table).
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Bombay (Mumbai), India
March 19, 2009
What's the proper way to handle a short or long hand?
>From: Ronile
>Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:26:53 AM
>Subject: MJ Question
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>A group of us has been playing Chinese MJ for a few years. We’ve had several new players join and there seems to be a lot of messed up hands, mainly short tiles, but sometimes an extra tile (assume they forgot to pick up for flowers or kong or forgot to discard). Since this only happened once before, in our “old timers” group”, it was declared a dead hand and the player was totally out of that hand.
>Being nice to the “newbies”, when the short or extra tile was discovered we have done the following (depending on who was playing): (1) nice way – couldn’t pick up tile for complete hand, (or discard the extra tile) therefore could not MJ, but could score hand at end of round; (2) very nice way – no matter when discovered, allowed player to pick up missing tile from end of wall or discard extra tile from hand.
>Now that the newbies have been playing for awhile, some of our group wants to go back to the “dead hand” where the player is out of that hand and cannot score, others want to go with (1) above. We’ve tried to find something in the official Chinese rules, but they don't seem to address these issues – guess they assume if you’re that advanced you don’t make mistakes!
>Can you give us some insight on what usually happens in these cases? Yes, it is a friendly game, but we do play for money (please, don’t turn us in!).
>Sorry this was so long.
>Thanks,
>Ronile
Hi Ronile,
This is a cosmic coincidence - what Kurt Vonnegut Jr. called a "chronosynclastic infundibulum." I was asked this exact same question last night, two times. I'm in Bombay, India, and depending on which time zone you're in in America, you might have typed your question at the exact time I was asked it the second time last night.
I'm here on a speaking engagement, and addressed a Bombay mahjong club last night. My hostess asked me this in the car on the way to the gathering, and two of her players asked me this after my speech. A hole must have opened up in the space-time continuum, and allowed the question to float through the ether, where it tickled your synapses and made you type your question! Wow.
Sorry. Should answer your question. Same answer I gave the ladies last night. The noobs have had enough time to learn the lesson. Now the actual penalty should apply.
When a player's hand has gone dead due to too few or too many tiles, that player should not be allowed to declare mahjong (and not fix the tile count either), but should be permitted to continue playing defensively. Some rules hold that the player should even be permitted to pung and chow, though why a dead player would want to I couldn't say.
When you say you checked the "official" Chinese rules, I have to wonder which book or website you checked. Because the MCR definitely includes this, in no uncertain detail. It's also in my book, too. But it sounds like you actually play Chinese Classical, not Chinese Official (since you permit non-winners to score the hand). Whether or not you want dead players to score their hands is completely up to you (see FAQ 14).
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Mumbai (Bombay), India
March 19, 2009
do u know anyone who will make up tiles to match a set?
>From: "Suz0728中aol.com"
>Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:39:25 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>do u know anyone who will make up tiles to match a set? i have an old bakelite set with all the tiles, except the 8 jokers. i have tried to match up and use joker stickers, but i am unable to find the exact size.
>any ideas???
>thank you
Hi Suz,
I've posted your question on the Tiles Wanted bulletin board, which is what I assume you were trying to accomplish. But really you should have been more descriptive of your tiles (dimensions especially). You should also check the Tiles For Sale bulletin board. And read FAQ 7r.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Mumbai, India
March 18, 2009
Everybody killed themselves; what now?
>From: Sharon
>Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:01:11 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My Mah Jongg question or comment is:
>Three players have gone dead, (first player called for Mah Jongg and did not have it, second and third exposed their tiles. What happens to the fourth player who has not exposed any tiles and is not dead.
>Does she receive any points for being the only one alive? Sharon
Hi Sharon,
This is rule 98.d. in my book (page 62).
In my opinion, the two who exposed their tiles are in error and should be penalized, but the official rule is that only the initiator of the error cascade has to pay. She pays double the value of her own hand (the hand she thought she was making) to the sole survivor, and the two dummies who killed their own hands don't have to pay.
Let this be a lesson to them - look before acting. Don't just throw in the tiles (or show them to everybody and start the kvetching session), but rather wait and see what the "winner" has made.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Mumbai (Bombay), India
March 16, 2009
No questions... just kudos
>From: Charles
>Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:33:44 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>No questions . . .
>Mr. Sloper:
>I'm an old man with a business practice in financial services. I,
>unfortunately, have my nose stuck to this amazing, damned machine for too
>many hours each day.
>I have never - and I repeat, "never" - come across a website as thorough,
>logical, knowledgeable, clearly constructed, helpful, bright, complete,
>pleasurable to use, informative, intelligent, generous, humored, readable,
>useful . . . I could go on but my Thesaurus is in the office.
>Good job, Mr. Sloper . . . no, GREAT (excuse the shouting) job.
>Charles
Aw shucks, Charles.
Thanks. Very good of you to write.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Bombay, India
March 16, 2009
Can the bettor say stuff that affects the game?
>From: "MMGymTeach
>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:18:01 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Can you declare a player dead if you are the bettor?
Absolutely not! While you're the bettor, you have to keep your mouth firmly zipped closed.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Bombay (Mumbai), India
March 15, 2009
Can I use the number zero in a consecutive run hand?
>From: "sandra
>Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:14:05 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>On the 2008 card, consecutive hand number four - 1111 22 22 22 3333
>Can you play this hand with four white dragons for zeros, three pairs of one's and a kong of two?
>If so, does it matter what suit the kong is in?
>Thank you
>Sandra
>Marathon Florida
No. (^_^) 1-9 only. Not 0-9 and not 0-10. And no half numbers either. 1-9 only.
Cheers from London Heathrow.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Friday the 13th, March, 2009
what is my set worth? see, i'm not even shouting! (part 3)
>From: ROBIN
>Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:44:03 PM
>Subject: Mah jongg
>Thank you, Sir..........you've completly given me what I need and I will
>in good conscious be able to show my buyer your comments. Thank you for
>this service......you've made our world a better place
>Robin
what is my set worth? see, i'm not even shouting! (part 2)
>From: ROBIN
>Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:24:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Mah-Jongg Q A
>Thanks VERY much (this is the part I want to shout - thanks!)
>Mah-Jongg Set
>Age determination checklist
>1. Contents
>a. Dice – 2
>b. Sticks – 38 with ten black dot; 7 with five red dots; 41 with two black dots; 37 with one red dot
>c. Container with lid with four green character and green edged wind chips
>d. Craks – 108
>e. Wind tiles – 16 – four each north, south, east west
>f. Flowers – 4 - numbered 1 through 4 in green
>g. Flowers – 4 - numbered 1 through 4 in red
>h. Single character in green - 4 tiles
>i. Single character in red – 4 tiles
>j. Blanks - 8
>2. No paper materials were included
>3. Tiles (per FAQ 7c) made of: bone (I think per explanation in FAQ #) 7c
>4. History of the set: My brother bought the set in 1958 from Mrs. J.L. Brown, 301 W. 217th St, Matteson, IL whose mother had the set about 40 years (circa 1918). Paper glued on back says:
>MAKE IN CHINA
> KWANG LI YUEN Co.
> EXPORTERS & GENERAL MERCHANTS
> No. 296, East Wuchang Road.
> SHANGHAI CHINA
> CODE ADDRESS 7015.
> Telephone N. 3579
>5. Dimensions of the tiles: Height – 1 & 3/16” width – 13/16” depth – 7/16” thickness of bamboo – ¼” and thickness of bone (I think) – 3/16”
>6. How many tiles in the set: 148
>7. Container – rosewood slide-front type – 5 drawers – four for tiles and one for other parts
>8. Craks – simpler-style crak character per picture #8 in FAQ 7g
>9. One bam – picture attached
>10. Dragons – picture attached
>11. Flowers/seasons – picture attached
>12. Jokers – not sure what a joker is – couldn’t find a picture but hopefully something I’ve described in #1 is a joker - if it’s the single character as described in #1h and #1i above then the character is carved into the tile
>I have a buyer but have no idea what to ask. They want to buy the set as a gift to a Chinese family. Thanks very much for any information you can provide.
>Robin
Hello Robin,
OK, well, I see that nobody wants to tell me about the condition. (Same thing happened with John & Chamie - but in their case I also don't know which tile is missing). But your pictures reveal some information about the condition. There's some pretty severe discoloration on some of the tiles. Looks like all the tiles are there. But the set has no paper manual, and most sets from that era (the 1920s) did. The box appears to be pretty faded and scuffed. Not the best condition. The dice look larger and squarer than is usual for a 1920s set - they might be later additions - and one die has a paint flaw that I can see in the very large photos you sent. Oh, and your sticks aren't complete either (they ought to be evenly divisible by 4 in each denomination).
So the discoloration, the wear and tear of the box, and the lack of paper manual are the biggest flaws I can see in your photos. It's a standard 1920s set, and not the best example of one.
If I was advising your buyer on how much to pay, I'd say "no more than $90."
So perhaps that tells you what you need to know?
By the way, you mentioned jokers. If you'd carefully checked the FAQs (like FAQs 7a, 7b, & 7e), you'd know whether or not you have jokers in your set. (You don't. Jokers did not exist in 1920s sets, as a rule.)
May the sale be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 11, 2009
No bones about it...
>From: Jack
>Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:57:42 PM
>Subject: bones
>Hi Tom,
>Please tell me how I can purchase mah jong bones. Thanks.
>Jack
Hi Jack,
Check with the vendors listed in FAQ 4a, and on the Accessories For Sale and Tiles For Sale bulletin boards.
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq.html
May the sticks or bones not hurt you. (Sorry, lousy attempt at humor)
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 11, 2009
what is my set worth? see, i'm not even shouting!
>From: ROBIN
>Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:36:48 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: what is my set worth, please?
>The following is your checklist, completed as well as I think is possible
>and a few pictures which I think (my first attempt) are small and I'm not
>shouting but asking very meekly........what is my set worth?
>Robin = ^..^ =
>Attachments:
>bams.jpg
>blanks.jpg
>box front.jpg
>Box.jpg
>Crak drawer.jpg
>Craks.jpg
>Dots.jpg
>dovetailing 2.jpg
>files.doc
>flowers 2.jpg
>Mah-jongg checklist.pdf
>Other stuff.jpg
>Wind tiles.jpg
Hello Robin,
I'll be happy to help you with your question, but you have to send me your checklist within the body of the email, not as an attachment.
The valuation will be given on the bulletin board.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 11, 2009
When making exposures, part 2
>From: "Alice
>Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:24:49 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Thank you very much. We play tonight and I will pass on your wisdom.
>Alice
When making exposures... (FAQs 19AX & 19Z)
>From: "Alice
>Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:24:49 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>When making exposures do you put them in order reflecting the hand you are playing or can you put them up on the rack in any order. Also, do you separate the kongs and pungs on the rack.
>This question came up last week when a player had exposed her entire hand except for the pairs and the tiles were in random order. She was asked to put the tiles in order and she said she didn't have to. I cannot find this addressed in any rule book. What do you say?
>Alice
Hi Alice, you wrote:
When making exposures do you put them in order reflecting the hand you are playing or can you put them up on the rack in any order.
Read FAQ 19AX at http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/mjfaq19.htm
Also, do you separate the kongs and pungs on the rack.
Read FAQ 19Z. Please bookmark FAQ 19 for your future reference.
She was asked to put the tiles in order and she said she didn't have to. I cannot find this addressed in any rule book.
When you can't find a rule in a rulebook, that often means there is no such rule.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 11, 2009
Can I change my mind? (FAQ 19AM)
>From: Arlene
>Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:49:48 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: I called a tile for MJ and exposed part of my hand then changed my mind, am I dead? I didn't retrieve the tile called.
>Thank you
>Arlene
Hi Arlene, long time no see!
The "change of heart" rules are discussed in FAQ 19AM. The FAQ links are above left.
After calling for a discard, you can change your mind only if you have not exposed any part of your hand. In a tournament setting, you can change your mind only if you have not exposed any part of your hand AND you have not taken the discard and put it atop your rack. (Check it out - read FAQ 19AM.)
So you are not permitted to change your mind. You have committed to taking the discard and making the exposure. Since your call was "mahj," not merely for exposure, and assuming you're not able to make good on the call, then the answer to your question is yes. You are dead.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 11, 2009
My wife's grandmother's set from the early 1900's, part 2
>From: jmoran70
>Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 3:20 PM
>Subject: Mahjongg Set Appraisal
>Hi Tom :
>Thank you for you email and I think that with your help we have been able to determine that the set that was in my wife's family is bone and bamboo. The carring case is leather w/felt lining, and the lock is broken. The count of the pieces is as follows.
>Tiles - 147
>Dice - 2, very small
>Barrel w/disc - 1
>Wind discs - 4
>Sticks - Red - 8 pieces w/ 5 dots
> 36 pieces w/ 1 dot
>Sticks - Black - 40 pieces w/ 2 dots
> 36 pieces w/ 10 dots
>Thanks for your help, John & Chamie
Hi John & Chamie,
Please tell me the condition. And which tile is missing? Read the FAQs (FAQs 7a, 7b, 7h) for information on tile breakdowns and how to define condition. Also please repeat the original question.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 10, 2009
Hot wall, part 3
>From: Betsy
>Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:16:20 PM
>Subject: Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Okay, so do you mean the official rules do not include calling something a hot wall? It's just leave those tile to the end kind of thing?
Yes, Betsy,
That is exactly what I said in FAQ 19Y:
There is no "hot wall" or "cold wall" or "pay for the party" rule in the official NMJL rules. Other than the double payment, the official NMJL rules do not stipulate any prohibition against, nor penalty for, throwing the winning tile, under any circumstances, no matter the number of exposures or the length of the remaining wall. But many groups adopt a "table rule" to stipulate such a penalty... Invariably, these table rules are called "cold wall" or "hot wall" or "paying for the party."
I repeat my recommendation that you bookmark FAQ 19, and that you read FAQ 14 (again, if you read it before).
BTW, I think I know what a "BFW" is... (^_~)
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 8, 2009
Hot wall, part 2
>From: Betsy
>Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 3:32:18 PM
>Subject: Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>I would not have emailed you if I had been able to find the answer to my question. Sending me to the FAQs, which I have looked at, is not the specific response I had hoped for. Whether or not you recognize the term hot wall, I was asking whether a player can pick do an exposure from that wall, whatever you want to call it, or if he or she can only pick in order to claim a mah jongg. otherwise, what is the point of that short wall in the first place? BFW
Hello again Betsy,
You missed the point entirely. It's not that I don't "recognize" the term hot wall. The point is that everybody's hot wall rules are different. It's like I told stacey on March 2 (below). There's no such thing as a universally-agreed interpretation of how any table rule should work. I can't tell you how your group's hot wall rules should work -- only your group can do that. As I wrote in FAQ 14.
I'm sorry I disappointed you, but that's the way table rules roll.
I can only tell you how the official rule works - and I did that in FAQ 19Y.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 8, 2009
Hot wall (FAQ 19Y)
>From: Betsy
>Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2009 12:00:24 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>Question about the hot wall --
>I was taught that no player can pick a tile that has been discarded from the hot wall for an exposure unless it is only to make a mah jongg. Is that correct?
>And one more --
>My other question has to do with picking up a tile. If the player to my left discards a tile that I need, can I take that person's discarded tile even if I cannot make an exposure?
>Thanks for your help.
>Betsy
>Mamaroneck, NY
Hello Betsy, you wrote:
Question about the hot wall
Read FAQ 19Y. The FAQs are above left.
I was taught that no player can pick a tile that has been discarded from the hot wall for an exposure unless it is only to make a mah jongg. Is that correct?
Yes, it's correct that you were taught that (based on the fact that you told me so). (^_^) But in my opinion, people like your teacher shouldn't go around teaching other people their table rules (read FAQ 14) as if those were the actual official rules.
And, in my opinion, people who learn a game from other people ought to follow up by availing themselves of written and printed information that's out there. You can buy the official rulebook from the National Mah Jongg League (see FAQ 3), or you can buy my book. You can read websites that describe the official rules, like Linda Fisher's site (see FAQ 4b), and you can read the "Frequently Asked Questions" ("FAQs") here on my site. Please bookmark the FAQs for future reference.
can I take [a] discarded tile ... if I cannot make an exposure?
Absolutely not. I'm surprised Ms. Hot Wall didn't teach you that. The "cost" of a discard is that you have to have enough identical tiles to make an exposure (minus one). If you don't have enough identical tiles, then you can't afford it. The "price" you pay for taking a discard is that you have to show the completed grouping to everybody, by exposing it atop your rack.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 8, 2009
Where to buy a case without going on the Internet?
>From: Merrily Lewis
>Email: merrily20 at yahoo,com
>Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2009 12:56:19 PM
>Subject: mah jongg case
>Hi
>I am looking for a shop in Los Angeles area to buy an empty mah jongg case with accompanying boxes to store the tiles. I have my mothers' old wet, but the case and boxes are moldy. Do you know of anyplace that I can go-I would prefer to see before buying.
>Thanks
Sorry, Merrily,
But verily, the Internet is the place to buy such a thing. No Chinatown shops sell empty cases. Read FAQ 7k. Also check FAQ 4a for the main online vendors of such things. They've got photos, so you can see before buying. You can also call them and talk to them and ask questions. Also see the Accessories Wanted Bulletin Board.
Also see FAQ 7o for tips on fixing that moldy smell. All the FAQs and BBs are above left.
May the case be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 7, 2009
Etiquette in the deal
>From: Gayle
>Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2009 11:59:56 AM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is:
>When tiles are being passed out at the beginning of the game, is it okay to start looking at the tiles before everyone has theirs?
Hi Gayle,
If everybody else is, sure. Go ahead. But if nobody else is, then you shouldn't. Go with the flow, Baby!
Or you could try talking about it with your group. "What do you girls think? Should we make the deal go faster and sort our tiles while we're dealing, or should we wait until everybody has the right number of tiles first?"
The main reason to wait until the deal is finished is just in case there's an error during the deal process. Sometimes somebody gets skipped accidentally, or sometimes the dealer might forget that she's already taken thrice, and take two stacks a fourth time, which results in an error cascade (a misdeal). It's not unusual to err during the deal, and it's most easily remedied if everybody makes three double stacks on her NMJL card (I recommend that beginners put each take on a pane of the card. It's a three-pane card, so you'll know you're done taking double stacks when all three panes have a double stack).
Just for the fun of it, why not read FAQ 9 for more on etiquette and error-handling? The FAQs are above left.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 7, 2009
My Vietnamese mystery tiles, part 3
>From: Darren
>Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 10:20 AM
>Subject: RE: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Thanks Tom! (Love your book too btw)
>Darren
YVW, Darren. (^_^)
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 6, 2009
Frequently Asked Question #19E
From: "Renee
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 7:44 AM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> My mah-jongg question or comment is:
> The hand is 1123 11111 11111. Can a joker be used for the 1123?
> Example: 1joker23? or is the 11 a pair?
Hello Renee,
This Frequently Asked Question is answered in FAQ 16 and FAQ 19e at http://sloperama.com/mjfaq.html
Please bookmark the FAQs for future reference.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 6, 2009
My Vietnamese mystery tiles, part 2
>From: "Darren
>Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 3:04:34 PM
>Subject: RE: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Thanks Tom,
> I didn’t see these mystery tiles in FAQ 7e, so here is a picture of them.
>Thanks,
>Darren
Hi Darren,
Sorry, I misspoke earlier. Turns out I didn't have photos of this type of tile in FAQ 7e (until now). But compare that photo with this photo from FAQ 7b:
I call your tiles the "kings & queens." They're a common feature of Vietnamese sets. They're used just like extra flowers (which is why they're numbered the same way flowers are).
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 5, 2009
My set in San Diego
>From: "sleeplessinsandiego
>Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 10:05:23 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>Hello,
> Thank you for your time reading my e-mail. I am just learning about this game. I really appreciate your web site as it has helped out a lot. I have also ordered The Red Dragon & The West Wind tonight. I do have a couple of questions. Based on the picture I have attached as my 148 tile set I want to say that this set is based off of an antique set, but I bought this set at an American store within the past 10 years. Would that be correct? The only extras my set came with are the dice in my second picture. My second question is about the dice that came with my set. I have read that you can use 2 of the dice to determine who goes first and which wall to break and where to break the wall. What is the 3rd 1-6 die used for? Also what is the other die in the orange holder for? It has pictures of the 4 winds and the red/green dragon.
>Thank you very much for your help.
>Paul
Hi Paul, you wrote:
I really appreciate your web site as it has helped out a lot.
Aw shucks!
I have also ordered The Red Dragon & The West Wind tonight.
Cool! (^_^)
I want to say that this set is based off of an antique set,
I wouldn't say that. I have a set just like that one in my collection (I bought it at The Gamekeeper, in the shopping mall here in town, some years back). It's a fairly common Taiwanese-made set. Definitely modern origin.
I bought this set at an American store within the past 10 years. Would that be correct?
I have no reason to doubt you on that! (^_^)
What is the 3rd 1-6 die used for?
Sets often come with extra blank tiles, or extra flowers or jokers, or extra dice. Some players like to use more than 2 dice. Perlmen & Chan (FAQ 3) say that "southerners" (those from the south of China), for instance, like to use 3 dice rather than 2.
what is the other die in the orange holder for?
That's the round indicator, it's used to indicate the "prevailing wind." Read about mah-jongg "bits & pieces" in FAQ 7d.
May the tiles be with you. Oh wait, I guess they already are! (In one sense, anyway.)
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 5, 2009
My Vietnamese set
>From: "Darren
>Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2009 2:30:11 PM
>Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
>My mah-jongg question or comment is: I recently purchased a Vietnamese set of tiles. According to the info you have provided, there are 8 jokers and 16 flower/season tiles. My set looks like it has 16 jokers and 8 flower tiles. The 8 jokers you provide info on are easily identifiable, but there are 8 other tiles….2 sets of 4…..each numbered (with Chinese numbers?) one through 4. Each set of 4 has a unique design or writing on it. Are these extra jokers, or are these the other flowers/seasons? If they are jokers how are they used? Any info would be appreciated. (And thank you for your website!)
>Thanks,
>Darren
Hi Darren,
All sets come in variations. The info I provided in the FAQs describes two different configurations of Vietnamese sets (not just 1 - see FAQ 2b). It's quite possible that yours is a third that I hadn't known of previously.
All "mystery tiles" are shown and described in FAQ 7e (http://sloperama.com/mjfaq/special.htm). If you can't identify your mystery tiles after reading that FAQ, send me photos and I can identify them for you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 5, 2009
What the heck game are my friends teaching me?
From: "Susan
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:11 PM
Subject: Mah-Jongg Q+A
> My mah-jongg question or comment is: I still can not figure out which
> game my friends are teaching me.
> We play with 146 tiles (36 bams, 36 cracks, 36 dots, 16 winds, 12
> dragons, 8 flowers and 2 jokers) We have a sheet we refer to for
> scoring "Twenty Point Mahjong Score Card - triplets and Kongs" we
> score triplets, ling sequences and pairs and then receive Doubles for
> various things (i.e. own flower=1 double, 3 or 4 dragons or flowers
> (of same color) = 1 double. And there are 20 special hands such as
> "Hidden Treasure", "All Honors", "Thirteen Orphans"
> I am interested in buying a book or reading more on line but nothing
> seems to be this game that I am learning...
> If you know the answer, I would appreciate your help.
> thanks,
> Susan Crowe
Hi Susan,
I see that I didn't list Robert F. Foster's "Twenty Point Mahjong" book in FAQ 3. But his game is #23 in FAQ 2b.
Foster wrote it in the 1920s, and copies occasionally show up on eBay. You could also look in websites specializing in old out of print books.
Foster seems to have been the first American author to put forth a new and novel way of playing. Some of his concepts seem to have inspired female players who kept on playing after the mah-jongg craze died down in the 1920's, who developed new hands, different uses of flowers, "wild tiles," which then led to the development of modern American mah jongg as defined by the National Mah Jongg League.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
3/3/09 (Square Root Day)
She says this is her table rule. Is that right?
>From: stacey
>Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 8:08:49 PM
>Subject: Question
>Dear Tom,
>I've been reading q's and a's on your site and am intrigued about the "Atomic" rule (my friend calls it "Ballistic", but that's another story. I had never heard of it.) Anyway, in her game in Florida the Atomic rule is not just that 7 pairs will make Mah Jongg, but 4 pungs and a pair would also constitute an Atomic hand. Is that right?
>Thanx,
>Stacey
>New York
Hi Stacey,
If she says that's her table rule, then I have to assume that's her table rule. I don't know what you're asking me about "rightness." Table rules are neither right nor wrong. They just are. Every "common" table rule has a hundred different interpretations. They're all unofficial. It would be a fool's errand to try to document all the "official" unofficial table rules. That's an oxymoron.
Please read FAQ 14 for the complete word on table rules. The FAQs are above left.
May the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 2, 2009
MCR software, in Japanese
>From: Marcio Fujiy
>Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2009 4:58:12 AM
>Subject: MCR software, in Japanese
>Hi Tom
>That's me again and this time I've found this free software, in Japanese, which uses Mahjong Competition Rules. Last version was released last month.
>As there are few options to play MCR offline, I think you'd want to add it to your FAQ 5 (Computer MJ games).
>http://pokegame.cool.ne.jp/free/poke_tyunma/tyunma.html
>(I know you don't like to click on links but it's necessary :-) )
>Unfortunately it's all in Japanese and the player must know some basic words like
ダウンロード
(DAUNROODO, to download the software :-) ) and
フー, チー, ポン, カン
(FUU, CHII, PON, KAN).
>Sorry for my poor English (I'm from Brazil and don't speak English very well...)
>Regards
>Marcio Fujiy
Olá!, Marcio.
Thanks for the link. I had heard of Tyunma but somehow it had fallen through the cracks, and I'd never listed it in FAQ 5. And the anti-links sentiment above mainly applies to folks who want me to appraise a set for them (they need to email the description and photos to me).
May the tiles be with you. (Babelfish translates that into Portuguese as: "Maio as telhas sejam com você.")
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on mah-jongg East & West.
Los Angeles, CA (USA)
March 2, 2009
Color key
Blue = an FAQ, a question that's been asked frequently.
Purple = an angry email from a disgruntled reader.
Green = a happy email from a grateful reader.
Red = a technical support question about a computer game.
Orange = a weird or off-topic email.
Black = none of the above. Regular question or comment.
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