I recently got an older Mah Jongg set
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 05:38:39 PM EST, Sue Z wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Hi Tom-
I recently got an older Mah Jongg set that belongs to a friend’s mom. The set is complete and appears to be plastic. The tile design is typical, the case has some wear and there is a lable on the back that says Made in Taiwan. I have not seen the plastic tile tubs before. There is nothing else to identify the age or manufacturer of the set. I’m guessing it is from the 90s. The value for me is sentimental but I’d love to know if you have an idea of its value, age, or manufacturer. Thanks so much. Please let me know if the photos are inadequate.
Sue Zoeller
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Hi, Sue! Thanks for the donation.
I'm surprised you call a set from the 1990s "older." But maybe I need to change how I view such things. But yes, it could be 1990s, and for all I know the manufacturer still churns those sets out today.
These sets are among the most common sets one sees in tournaments or players' homes. Around 2000 to 2010, these sets sold in Los Angeles' Chinatown for around $110. A 2000 dollar is worth about $1.74 today, so with some assumptions, that would be about $190, but I think most people wouldn't want to pay $190 for one of those sets today if it was new. There's a mind resistance to paying almost $200 for something that was known to be close to half that twenty years ago. If your set was in perfect like-new condition, you might be able to get somewhere around $125 for it.
...If it's in perfect like-new condition.
As I wrote in FAQ 7-H, value is driven by "condition, condition, condition."
I don't care what the name of the manufacturer is myself, and I don't think that's important to anyone.
It's not important to manufacturers in China or Taiwan; they don't put their names on their products.
If you want to know about manufacturers, I have some links in FAQ 7-U you can check to do the research.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Friday, March 10, 2023
Donations appreciated
P.S. March 13: Scrolling through my newsfeed, I just saw one of these sets on sale (new) for about $166. - Tom
The 2022 card, part 34
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 12:38:41 PM EST, Jan M wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Referring to the 2022 card:
This question about the third Quints hand came up during a game last week.
1122 33333 33333 (any three suits, any 3 consecutive Nos.)
is 1122 to be considered as singles/pairs like 2022 or a “set of numbers?”
Thanks for your help.
Jan Maier
Hi, Jan! You asked:
JM: is 1122 to be considered as singles/pairs like 2022 or a “set of numbers?”
TS: It doesn't matter which of those it's considered. Read the back of the card: Jokers may be used to replace any tile(s) in any Pung, Kong, Quint, or Sextet. "1122" is not a pung. It's not a kong. It's not a quint. And it's not a sextet. (Those terms are defined on the back of the card.) So you can't use a joker in it (I assume that's why you were asking).
And since "1122" is not a pung, kong, quint, or sextet, you also can't claim a discard to expose it unless you're claiming mah-jongg. For further information, see FAQ 19-E2. And all the most frequently asked questions about the 2022 NMJL card are answered in FAQ 16.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Friday, March 10, 2023
Donations appreciated
Date, value, and any additional info
On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 05:34:26 PM EST, Coral R wrote:
Date and value of Mah-jongg set.
Hi Mr. Sloper,
First time poster so I apologize if I don't give all the details you may need (or too many details, haha). My grandmother recently passed and as we were cleaning up her house we found this old Mah-jongg set.
The backs of the tiles look to be bamboo and the tiles themselves appear to be bone, but I have no clue what kind. It has quite a few obvious chips and cracks and is missing the sticks, dice and other additional pieces along with the instruction booklet, but doesn't seem to be missing any tiles, I believe. It has 5 drawers with the bottom drawer being a press spring load? (broken) and the door slides down into the bottom.
It's definitely not in the best condition and it's been sitting in a house in Florida collecting dust for 50+ years so I'm uncertain if theirs any humidity damage to it, but it doesn't smell musty and theirs no obvious warping, so I think the wood preserved well.
If you could help me get an idea of the date, value, and if you have any additional info about the piece, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you so much for being such an amazing source of history and information. If you need any additional information please let me know!
Coral
Hi, Coral!
You wanted to know:
CR: the date
TS: it's from the 1920s. See column 610.
CR: value
TS: I have good news and bad news. The good news: these ornately carved boxes are sought after. The bad news: the condition is not great. See FAQ 7-H. I'd rate it "Fair+" or "Good-" because of all the chips and scratches and cracks. Good: the tiles are all there, and the flower tiles are interesting. Bad: pronounced Haversian system (see FAQ 7-C). It's odd that less-than-pretty tiles would be packaged in an ornate box. And I see flaws in the closeup shot of the Bams, it looks like worm damage or something. Another bad: it's missing the bits and pieces that the set originally came with. A collector who does not have one of these carved boxes might pay more than $150 for the set, maybe $200. Probably not as much as $300, but honestly, I'm guessing here.
CR: any additional info
TS: Sorry, I'm not good at that type of question.
Congratulations. It's a find, for sure.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Tuesday, March 7, 2023
Donations appreciated
I say it's a good idea but not a strict MJ rule.
On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 04:41:12 PM EST, Louise D wrote:
MJ QUESTION
My teammates are having a disagreement about picking and racking I say it's a good idea but not a strict MJ rule. They say it is. Is it a rule to pick and rack?
Louise
Hi, Louise!
You're asking if it's a rule that a player must rack a tile she picked from the wall. I answered this in FAQ 19-BL. There is no such rule. In the 2021 newsletter, the League said it is "best practice". You say it's "a good idea." I disagree. I'll explain my thinking momentarily.
But first I want to make sure we're not talking about "pickandrack" - the cutthroat practice of picking and racking very quickly, so as to shut out the possibility of someone else claiming the live discard. I discussed "pickandrack" in FAQ 19-AD.3 The League agrees with me that "pickandrack" is aggressive and unsportsmanlike behavior.
I do not always rack my picked tile.
I KNOW what tile(s) I need, especially later in the game when my needed tiles have been reduced to just one or two tiles I need.
I can look at my picked tile and determine very quickly that it's not a tile I need. If it is a tile I want, then I rack it.
I may actually take my turn more quickly than a player who always racks. The fact that another player might still call the live discard while I'm holding the pick and looking at it doesn't bother me.
And that's the philosophy behind "pick and rack" (always racking a picked tile, and NOT taking a fraction of a second to look at it along the way) - to shut out another player who might call the live discard. Am I right? That's the reason why you think it's a good idea to rack it, isn't it?
Thing is, if I'm looking at the pick without first racking it, most of the time it's not my mahj tile, and I'm fine with putting it back on the wall if somebody calls that live discard.
In fact, I know that my next turn will come again that much sooner.
American/NMJL mah-jongg is not the only mah-jongg style in the world. I've played Chinese mah-jongg in China and Europe. I've played Japanese mah-jongg in Japan. I've played Western-style mah-jongg in India. NONE of those variants make rules about what a person has to do with the picked tile. It's my choice, my right, to look at the tile and then discard it, without being told I have to put it among my concealed tiles before I can discard it.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Monday, March 6, 2023
Donations appreciated
P.S. A lot of the time, we Americans play with stickered jokers, or jokers that can be determined by touch of a thumb without looking. When I pick a wall tile and can tell without looking that it's a joker, THEN, you can bet, I rack it right away! - Tom
What happens in the case of these errors, part 2
On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 12:17:07 PM EST, Debbie Barnett wrote:
Hello
Hi Tom,
As always, I want to thank you for your tireless commitment to the world of Mah Jongg.
On March 5th Toni G's asked several questions, one of them regarding the placement of a called tile. Based on your answer I'm assuming you might not be aware of the League's new rule so I thought I'd send it to you. It is in the 2023 Bulletin and caused quite an uproar in the community as the League has added yet another rule without penalty.
Bet you are looking forward to spring!
Kind Regards,
Debbie Barnett
Hi, Debbie! So when I got your email referencing the 2023 newsletter, I pulled it out and sure enough, there it was at the bottom of the page. In a box to draw the eye, so of course I had totally missed it because it was not numbered. Just now I checked my column 783 where I reviewed the newsletter. No mention of that new rule. Missed it because I was only checking the numbered Q&As. Duh!
So I have to revise FAQ 19 and the RDWW errata, delete that word "preferable." But as you pointed out, the new rule does not come with a penalty. That leaves "friendly" home players to have to decide whether to let it slide or call you dead.
Re-reading Toni's question: "someone calls a discarded tile for exposure and absentmindedly puts it in her hand and discards, should her hand be dead? Or is it ok if she is allowed to expose it when the error is noticed?"
My response overlooked that that player had discarded
before making
the exposure. If the player put the discard into the hand and then discarded without putting the exposure up first, that is definitely a fatal blunder.
I'll close now, got a couple changes to make... Thanks, Debbie.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Monday, March 6, 2023
Donations appreciated
P.S. I found that I didn't need to change the RDWW errata; what's written in the book is not at odds with this "new rule." And there wasn't much that needed to be changed in FAQ 19, either, other than FAQ 19-K. - Tom
Is my set complete? When was it made? (part 3)
On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 09:22:00 AM EST, Karen D wrote:
Photo of set - 140 tiles
Dear Mr. Sloper,
As per your email of 2/28, I am sending photos of my inherited set. Please tell me, if you can, if I have a complete set, and if not, what I would need to complete it. Can you tell me the age of my set, where it was made, or anything that you know about it.
Thank you very much,
Karen
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Karen,
The other 2 photos you sent were pretty much identical to that one. If you had arranged the tiles the way I'd asked, this is what tiles your set contains:
You wanted to know:
KD: if I have a complete set
TS: You do not.
KD: what I would need to complete it.
TS: In terms of tiles, this type of set (in the elongated "trumpet-style" case) is expected to have eight flowers and eight jokers, in order to be used to play American rules. You have only four flowers, and no jokers. A previous owner must have taken those tiles to complete another set.
In terms of accessories, I see that you have a case and two racks and a pair of dice. You're missing two racks and you're missing the colored "coins" used for scoring when players don't use quarters, dimes, and nickels. These accessories are shown in FAQ 7-D, the "Bits and Pieces" FAQ.
KD: Can you tell me the age of my set
TS: No.
KD: where it was made,
TS: Probably China or Taiwan. Possibly the USA.
KD: or anything that you know about it.
TS: I have a difficult time answering "anything" questions, sorry.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, March 6, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Somebody discarded a perfectly good redeemable tile. Can I call it?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 06:30:34 PM EST, Renae V wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
If I have 3 jokers and a green dragon showing. Someone throws a green dragon can i pick it up replace one of my jokers. Or is it too late?
Sorry, Renae. See FAQ 19-G2; Once a redeemable tile has been discarded, it can only be taken to create a new set for exposure or mah-jongg. It is NOT permitted to take the tile in order to redeem it for a joker.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Sunday, March 5, 2023
Donations appreciated
What happens in the case of these errors?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 06:13:02 PM EST, Toni G wrote:
My mah-jongg questions are:
If someone calls a discarded tile for exposure and absentmindedly puts it in her hand and discards, should her hand be dead? Or is it ok if she is allowed to expose it when the error is noticed?
If it is noticed that someone has picked from the wrong end of the wall, can it be put back and then picked from the correct end? Or what if it’s obvious that someone picked from the wrong end, but no one knows who did it? Does play just continue from the correct end?
Toni G
Hi, Toni! You asked:
TG: If someone calls a discarded tile for exposure and absentmindedly puts it in her hand and discards, should her hand be dead? Or is it ok if she is allowed to expose it when the error is noticed?
TS: See FAQ 19-K. It depends on whether you're in a tournament or a home game. Under NMJL rules, it is permitted to put the taken discard into the hand just prior to exposing tiles from your hand. But the League says it is "preferable" to put the taken discard atop the rack before exposing tiles from your hand.* Oops! See footnote after sig below.
TG: If it is noticed that someone has picked from the wrong end of the wall, can it be put back and then picked from the correct end?
TS: See FAQ 19-AA. It depends. In a home game, among friends, you might be let off with a friendly warning. If the player picked from the wrong end and then discarded before correcting the error, that player is dead.
TG: what if it’s obvious that someone picked from the wrong end, but no one knows who did it?
TS: You can't punish an unknown person. I would just move on with the game.
TG: Does play just continue from the correct end?
TS: Play should absolutely proceed correctly, not incorrectly.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Rochester, New York, USA
Sunday, March 5, 2023
* Oops! My response overlooked that the player had discarded before making the exposure. If the player put the discard into the hand and then discarded without putting the exposure up first, that is definitely a fatal blunder. Death penalty time!
Also see the email from Debbie Barnett on Monday, March 6, above.
- Tom
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Thank you, Evelyn!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
March 2, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Donations greatly appreciated
What reason do you do the Charleston?
On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 08:20:51 PM EST, Patricia C wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is: what reason do you do the Charleston?
Someone was very rude to me in a marathon telling me that I better be stopping the Charleston only of I am 4-5 tiles from a making mahjong. I told her that is not my way of playing. To continue to question my reason. I did not have there tiles to pass due to the hand that I had.
She is a teacher of mahjong here. She insisted she was right
I do not think anyone should be questioning my reason to stop the Charleston.
Hi, Patricia! I'm replying point-by-point to what you wrote:
PC: what reason do you do the Charleston?
TS: I assume this question is rhetorical. Moving on to the next point:
PC: Someone was very rude to me in a marathon telling me that I better be stopping the Charleston only of I am 4-5 tiles from a making mahjong. I told her that is not my way of playing. To continue to question my reason.
TS: I agree that she was rude to you, and that it was inappropriate to ask you why you were stopping the Charleston. A lot of people hate it when another player stops the Charleston. You just need to remember to never explain your reasoning. "The rules say I can stop. I'm stopping." Then offer your opposite how many tiles you want to exchange in the courtesy pass.
PC: She is a teacher of mahjong here. She insisted she was right
TS: She was wrong. Stopping the Charleston is a matter of strategy, not rules. Her "rule" that you can only stop the Charleston if you are 4-5 tiles from mahj is NOT A RULE. It's a strategy principle. Strategies are not enforceable. One player has no business trying to force their strategies on others.
PC: I do not think anyone should be questioning my reason to stop the Charleston.
TS: I am in complete agreement with you.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Friday, 3/3/23
Rochester, New York, USA
I recently bought a Mah-jongg set in an auction, part 2
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 05:21:06 PM EST, Tony K wrote:
Thank you very much Tom for your helpful response.
Kind regards
Pleased to be of assistance, Tony!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
March 2, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
The 2022 card, part 33
On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 02:36:02 PM EST, Susie S wrote:
Question regarding 000 on 2022 card...
On the 2022 card, the second hand listed under 2022 is...
222 000 2222 2222 (2's Any 3 Suits)
A Joker may not be used in "2022" as those are all considered singletons, but...
May a Joker be used to complete "000"?
Thanks, in advance, for taking my inquiry.
Best,
Susie
SCS
GOALS: Be Positive, Test Negative
Hi, Susie!
Yes. Read the back of the card.
It says right there, "Jokers may be used… in any Pung, Kong, Quint, or Sextet."
Revised goals: Be positive, test negative, read the back of the card, and read FAQ 16 for questions and answers about the NMJL card.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
3/2/23
Rochester, New York, USA
I saw a set for sale in a consignment shop
On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 01:23:28 PM EST, Bonny K wrote:
Question about your picture
Hi Tom. I saw a set for sale in a consignment shop in upstate NY for $110 that looks exactly like the set that you have pictured that created this email. Do you know the approximate value of that? What does the triangle in the upper left corner of the case say?
Thanks so much
Bonny Kelter
Set For Sale:
# of tiles:
Color of tiles:
Material the tiles are made of:
Description of case:
Accessories included:
Overall condition of set:
URL where you can see pictures:
Sent from my iPhone
You gave my puzzle-fan self a bit of a puzzle with this email, Bonny! I had to figure out what picture you were talking about. The boilerplate in your email solved the puzzle for me. You were referring to this photo, from atop the Sets Wanted bulletin board:
So: thanks for the puzzle fun! As to your question, no. I cannot tell you the value of that set in the window in Upstate New York.
I don't know what condition it's in, and I don't know how many flowers and jokers the set contains. And as for the corner label, I can't tell you that, either. It might say "Royal Depth Control" or it might say "Cardinal Industries," as two guesses. $110 is probably a fair price, if the condition warrants. It could be worth much more if it's in excellent condition AND has at least 8 jokers and 8 flowers. If it has fewer than 8 jokers and 8 flowers, then there will be a very long search for matching tiles to fill out the set so it can be used to play National Mah Jongg League rules. Scroll down and have a look at the posts where people write me asking where they can get extra tiles, like the February 27 posts from Karen D and Lauren's Gmail. I get questions like that all the time, and those are just from last month! And see the answer I gave to Phyllis M on February 7, who asked about the value of a Cardinal set that might or might not have enough flowers and jokers. Sorry I can't be more help. Just curious: where in Upstate NY did you see this?
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
3/2/23
Rochester, New York, USA
I recently bought a Mah-jongg set in an auction
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 12:31:36 PM EST, Tony K wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I recently bought a Mah-jongg set in an auction and would grateful if you could shed some light on the attached flowers and seasons.
My previous set showed the normal flowers (i.e bamboos, plums etc) and seasons (i.e summer, autumn etc). These are different.
Thank you.
Sent from Mail for Windows
Hi, Tony!
These are Singapore-style "animal flower tiles," explained fully in FAQ 7E-F, the "Mystery Flowers FAQ."
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
3/2/23
Rochester, New York, USA
We play 14 tiles, and I have some questions
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 11:50:16 AM EST, Barry S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
1. We play 14 tiles. I threw and then picked a tile that was part of another player’s exposure. The other player had used a joker. I substituted my tile and took the joker. I then called mahjong.
The other players said that I had to “play it forward,” whatever that means, and could not call mahjong until my next turn. If someone else called mahjong in the interim, then I was out of luck. No one else called mahjong. When it was my turn again, I had mahjong in my hand before I threw or picked. This can’t be right.
2. We play 14 tiles. I threw. Before I picked, another player called my throw, exposed and threw. I never picked. I was later called dead for too few tiles. How does picking work when another player calls my throw?
Hi, Barry!
I honestly don't know the answers to your questions. I play according to the rulebook. I guess you would call that "13 tiles." I call it "NMJL rules."
When somebody asks me a question about "13 tiles" rules, it's easy - I just look it up in the official rulebook, or my book, or another book describing the rules, or the FAQs here on my site. But there is no rulebook for your "14 tiles" game.
So I can't help you - I honestly don't know how "14 tiles" rules work. Maybe another reader will email me and tell me the answers to your questions. Don't the players at your table know how their rules work? Can't they answer your questions? I'm sorry that I simply can't answer questions about table rules that nobody has ever written down.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Thursday, March 2, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is my set complete? When was it made? (part 2)
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 12:22:51 PM EST, Karen D wrote:
Thank you very much, Mr. Sloper! I will send a photo of the tiles when I am next able to check the set.
Karen D
Is my set complete? When was it made?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 11:21:31 PM EST, Karen D wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Dear Mr. Sloper,
I have just inherited a Mah-Jongg set, with tiles made of catalin, and purchased from Cardinal Industries years ago. I have counted 140 tiles (with 4, rather than 8 flowers). Is this a complete set? In addition, they’re are red, blue, and white dragons, but no green dragons. Also, have you any idea of the year that this set was manufactured?
Thank you very much.
Karen D
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Karen. I'm going to need to see pictures of all your tiles, arranged by suit and number, as shown in FAQ 7-B, the "Is this a complete set?" FAQ.
I would need to see for myself your red, blue, and white dragons, but no green dragons. Maybe FAQ 7-E, the "Mystery Tiles FAQ," will help you rethink what you have. I'd need to see a picture of your dragons.
As for when it was manufactured, if your set was cannibalized, its flowers removed to build out another set to accommodate the National Mah Jongg League's ever-changing flower/joker count requirements in the 40s, 50s and 60s (as illustrated in column 509), it will be very difficult to be sure when it was made.
| 1937-1942 |
8F |
| 1943 |
12F |
| 1944-45 |
14F |
| 1946 |
16F |
| 1947-48 |
18F |
| 1949 |
20F |
| 1950-55 |
24F |
| 1956-57 |
22F |
| 1958-60 |
20F |
| 1960-62 |
14F/2J |
| 1962-66 |
12F/4J |
| 1966-67 |
8F/6J |
| 1967-68 |
10F/6J |
| 1968-71 |
6F/8J |
| 1971-Present |
8F/8J |
I would need to see a picture of all your flowers. The number of flowers and jokers in a set isn't necessarily a reliable indicator of the exact date of manufacture of an American set, but an understanding of the NMJL's fluctuating use of flowers and jokers (and what that caused players to do) does give some clues.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Tuesday, February 28, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 8
Re: What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 4
On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 02:41:56 AM EST, Patrice S wrote:
Hi once again, Tom (aka Kanji Man) ~
I am so jazzed that Paul a) read your postings b) owns the same one dot set, still wrapped so their order was preserved! & c) very kindly emailed you with his photos!! Many thanks, Paul, for providing the crucial missing pieces of the puzzle! Tom, thank you for prompting me to check your Bulletin Board. Wow, the mystery character in my photo is far more worn than I realized: luckily, you're used to reading kanji. I admit to hoping for a less mundane translation than "Produced in Qinggang" or "longer lasting paint", LOL, but I appreciate that we arrived at an answer: it takes a village, etc.!!
Cheers, Patrice ~
Patrice, your tile isn't "worn." The mold or stamp, or whatever process was used to create the design, is less detailed than the mold or stamp used for Paul's tile. But yes, very serendipitous that Paul had the same designs on his tiles and was able to help fill the gap for us.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Tuesday, February 28, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Undo! Backsies! Can I change my mind?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 08:22:30 PM EST, Jeanie H wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
i called a tile and picked it up but decided I don’t want it. I have exposed the tiles from my hand. Can I change my mind and put the tile back on the table?
Oh, you exposed the tiles already, huh? Too late now! In the change-of-heart rules, once you've either put that called tile on the rack OR exposed tiles, you've committed to the play. So sorry.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 27, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 7
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 03:25:30 PM EST, Paul H wrote:
Re: One Dot
Glad to help, put the sinograms into Google and images of similar sets pop-up, nice to have an accurate translation.
Not very profound, I remember seeing a set that had something like 'longer lasting paint' on the #1Circles!!!
LOL!
The 2022 card, part 32
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 01:39:27 PM EST, Jon S wrote:
Cc: Jon and Edith
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Sent from Mail for Windows
2022 Mah Jong card the 5th consecutive run after the (or) can that be 3 suits?
No, Jon. To the left of the -or-, it's one color (one suit). To the right of the -or-, it's two colors (two suits). The color-coding is saying that the hand can be made in either one or two suits.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 27, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 6
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 01:16:07 PM EST, Paul H wrote:
One Dot
Hi Tom
I was reading your bulletin board and came across the One Dot posts from Patrice.
I have the same One Dots, still in their cellophane wrapping - giving the correct order to the tiles?
Plus the manufacturer's name as per attached fotos, hope this helps.
Best Regards and keep up the good work
Paul
Great, Paul!
The first thing I notice is that the mystery character is readable on your set.
See how the detail is better in your tile (left) than Patrice's tile (right).
I can't be certain, but it looks a lot like 港, which my kanji book says means "harbor."
And if the correct order is 青港出品, translate.google.com says that means "Produced in Qinggang" (a city in eastern China, about halfway between Hong Kong and Shanghai). Babelfish.com agrees with that translation. That conflicts with the manufacturer's label, which says "Made in Hong Kong," but it's possible the tiles were made in Qinggang and the set was assembled for sale in Hong Kong. Or the Qinggang facility is owned by the Hong Kong company. Or something. Anyway, I think that is Patrice's answer! Thanks very much, Paul. A tip o' the Sloper hat to you.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 27, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
P.S. I'm pretty pleased that my kanji books seem to have solved this mystery!
P.P.S. I found that searching for the character string 青港 on Bing produces "Qingdao," especially the port of Qingdao, but Google produces "Qinggang" as before. Bing's AI thinks there should be another character in the string and by default gives you "Qingdao" because of that assumed third character. Kind of how if you mistype a search string in Google, it'll show you the results for what you probably meant to type. ... But now I'm talking about search engines; way off topic! So don't read this P.P.S. - Tom
Can you recommend someone that does restoration and matches tiles?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 12:29:16 AM EST, Lauren's Gmail wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Hi Tom
I have my mother’s vintage enrobed mah Jongg set. It’s in desperate need of restoration/repainting and I’m also missing one flower. Can you recommend someone that does restoration and matches tiles? I believe it’s made of Bakelite and it’s from the 1950’s.
Thank for any advice/help you can provide.
Lauren W
Sent from my iPhone
Sorry, Lauren, I cannot. There used to be people who did restorations and I did have their information listed on my cleaning and restoration page, but one by one they announced their retirement. I see there's still a live link there; I can't promise it will get you the help you need. Enrobed tiles are, as you have probably already figured out, among the rarest and most-sought replacement tiles. You can try the resources listed atop my Tiles Wanted bulletin board, but when I recently tried them to get a replacement tile that should have been fairly common, I came up empty. Aside from those two pages here, the only other lead I can offer is Johni Levene, who runs a private Facebook group, "Mah Jongg Collectors Association." I cannot do more for you than what I have written here. Good luck.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 27, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Regarding chowing down under
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 01:14:04 AM EST, John and Valerie C wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Regarding CHOWS.
Before I can chow from a discard, (i.e person on my left) do I have to already have a pung on the board/table.
Of can I chow for my first exposed set?
Thank you.
Valerie from Western Australia
G'day, Valerie!
There is no rule in Australian/British mah-jongg that requires a pung before a chow. You might make one exposure, you might make two exposures, you might make no exposures at all in the course of a hand of mah-jongg.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Sunday, February 26, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 5
On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 01:51:24 AM EST, Patrice S wrote:
What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 4
Tom, this is so much more information than I had hoped for, & your extensive efforts are much appreciated! Your description of your research steps & related background is "icing on the cake" for me, a research buff myself ??
I'll be sure to return to your site for periodic gleanings ~ take care.
All the best, Patrice
On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 03:01:45 AM EST, Patrice S via PayPal <service@paypal wrote:
patrice.x.s sent you money
Hello Thomas Sloper,
You were sent $10.00 USD from patrice.x.s
To see all the transaction details, please log into your PayPal account. It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.
Transaction date
Feb 21, 2023 23:41:35 PST
Buyer information
Patrice S
Instructions from buyer
Thanks once more for your help & time, Tom :)
Description Unit price Qty Amount
Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
Item #: MJ@Sloperama $10.00 USD 1 $10.00 USD
Total: $10.00 USD
PayPal
You're welcome, Patrice. Thank you for the donation!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Wednesday, 2/22/23
Rochester, New York, USA
What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 4
On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 03:40:15 PM EST, Patrice S wrote:
Re: What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 3
Hi Tom,
Hoping my friend's second photo here does the trick. Interesting info so far; I see what you mean about character order for correct translation. I'm curious: why use a Japanese kanji guide vs. Chinese?
Thanks again, Patrice
Patrice, I confess that I am in way over my head here. I spent some time living in Japan, and I've played mah-jongg in China, but I do NOT know Chinese, other than a few mah-jongg-related words. Japanese kanji (kan="Chinese", ji="character") have the same meaning in Japanese and Chinese. Trying to look up Chinese characters online is a real pain in the butt, and I don't think I'll get any better results that way. Yesterday I just used one of my kanji books; today I used three of them and was able to identify the one I said yesterday was two "mountain" characters stacked, by using the big fat kanji book:
青 means "blue" or "green"
出 means "goods"
品 means "exit" by itself, but combined with 出 (出品) it means "selling" or "sale"
These three characters I was able to identify from my Japanese kanji books, but I can't even tell what this first one is even supposed to look like if it was written with a pen or brush instead of embossed in a tiny plastic circular design:
So I have to give up at this point, Patrice. I tried pasting those three known characters "青出品" into translate.google.com and it seems that the probable meaning (leaving out the one unknown character) is "blue/green goods sales." I tried looking up "company" and none of the possible characters look anything like that one mystery character. Sorry, but I've taken your request as far as my meager abilities can take it.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Tuesday, February 21, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is that you?
On February 21, 2023 08:12 AM, stanley40 wrote in a direct message on gamedev.net:
Hey, I was wondering I was using these forums and I thought I recognized your name from the mahjong tournament from Las Vegas, Mahjong Madness.
Were you there in 2012 or do i have the wrong person, if i do apologies.
Yes, that's me. I wrote about it at
https://sloperama.com/mahjongg/madness.html
You're a mah-jongg player and indie game developer?
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Tuesday, February 21, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 3
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 10:30:01 PM EST, Patrice Stewart wrote:
Hi Tom,
My friend provided the attached one-dots photo. I hope you can locate some interesting info on the center designs, though they may merely reflect manufacturer preference. Thanks in advance for your time & efforts! Best, Patrice
IMG_0600.jpg
Hi, Patrice. That photo is only 240x320 pixels. I can't read the first symbol. A larger photo is necessary. The only place I ever see 240x320 is on the web, where sellers are trying to keep photo sizes small.
My guess is that these symbols are as follows:
X (unreadable)
青 which means "blue"
山 with another of those above it; one means "mountain" but I don't know what a stacked pair means
品 which means "goods"
The characters are probably not in order. If you can get me a higher-resolution picture, I might be able to do more. As it is, I would say it's probably the name of the company that sold the set. Note also that I used a Japanese kanji guide, not a Chinese one. The meanings could well differ from what I wrote above. It probably does NOT mean "blue mountains goods company" - maybe "blue mountains ivory products." That mysterious first character might be "ivory." The tiles are plastic, of course, not ivory. But it's not unusual for a mah-jongg maker to use "ivory" in the company name.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 20, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Have you heard of this? Where did it come from?
On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 07:10:31 PM EST, Susie S wrote:
Question about a game I learned with Mahjong tiles...
When I first started playing American mahjong, an older friend of my mother in-laws taught me how to play what they called Freestyle mahjong. This wasn't a legit game, but it came in handy if only 3 or so players showed up.
This was a good game when you had fewer than 4 players. Instead of The Charleston...
-Players place all the tiles face down in the well (center of the table)
-Each player then randomly chooses 13 tiles & racks them
-Then each player randomly chooses tiles from the well, without looking at them, to form 5 stacks, 3 tiles each, face down on the table, placed long side, side by side, hugged up against the front of their racks
-Players look at their hands, choose 3 tiles from their hand & throw them randomly, face down, back into the well
-Then, starting from the right, each player picks up the first stack of 3 tiles & racks them
-Players assess their hands, choose 3 more tiles to throw, face down, randomly into the well & pick up the next stack
-This is repeated until players pick up the last stack, which will remain in their hand, leaving each player with 13 tiles to start
-Players roll the dice & high roll starts play by drawing & discarding, with the player to their right taking the next turn & play continues until someone gets mahjong
We've enjoyed this, rather than muddling through The Charleston with 3 players & dealing to "Sally" which, if you don't know how to do it, can take forever & leaves plenty of room for mistakes
I can't find anyone, including the gal who taught me, who has ever heard of this, let alone who knows where it came from.
I'm hoping that you can shed some light on this for me, or maybe know someone who can.
I inquired at support@mahjcon.com and got a tongue lashing. I thought they were going to send the Mounties out after me.
Thank you, in advance, for taking my inquiry. Best~Susie
SCS
GOALS: Be Positive, Test Negative
Hi, Susie! There's a lot to unpack, so I'll take this step by step:
SS: ...called Freestyle mahjong. This wasn't a legit game, but it came in handy if only 3 or so players showed up.
TS: I wouldn't say that's not legit. If it has rules, it's a game. You may be the first to write its rules down. And it has a name. I'd modify the name, though; I'd call it "Freestyle 3-Player American Mah-Jongg" to differentiate it from possible other mah-jongg variant rulesets called "freestyle" around the world.
SS: -Players place all the tiles face down in the well (center of the table)
-Each player then randomly chooses 13 tiles & racks them
-Then each player randomly chooses tiles from the well, without looking at them, to form 5 stacks, 3 tiles each, face down on the table, placed long side, side by side, hugged up against the front of their racks
TS: Other players have recently said here that they don't build walls, just make a well as you describe. And I've seen all kinds of 3-player Charlestons, but in yours, each player dances with their own short wall.
I assume you're using the NMJL card at this point.
SS: We've enjoyed this, rather than muddling through The Charleston with 3 players & dealing to "Sally" which, if you don't know how to do it, can take forever & leaves plenty of room for mistakes
TS: I take it "Sally" is the dummy seat. Not all 3-player table rules involve a dummy. Under NMJL rules, the 3-player game is played satisfactorily without a Charleston at all, since you get more wall to pick from. That doesn't mean, though, that groups don't come up with their own substitute for the 4-player Charleston. They just seem to feel it doesn't feel right without a Charleston of some sort.
SS: I can't find anyone, including the gal who taught me, who has ever heard of this, let alone who knows where it came from.
I'm hoping that you can shed some light on this for me, or maybe know someone who can.
TS: There are a kajillion 3-player table rules out there, and hardly any of them are documented, much less their origin stories. I haven't attempted to collect or document 3-player table rules, or any other table rules beyond the most common ones. Your gal learned it from someone, who may have learned it from someone else. All you need is a time machine.
Good luck.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 20, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What do these One Dot symbols represent, part 2
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 09:11:12 PM EST, Patrice S wrote:
Thanks for your posted answer, Tom. I'm able to text only to phone numbers (a drag!) with my less-smart phone, but will email a photo after my digital camera is repaired & I can upload to my PC.
I just purchased two copies of RDWW, one as a gift. Looking forward to reading it & learning ?? Have a great day! Patrice
I look forward to seeing it, Patrice, and I hope you do enjoy my book. A warning: American mah-jongg is VERY different from Hong Kong style, and CMCR's scoring involves learning a lot of scoring attributes.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
February 16, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What do these One Dot symbols represent?
On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 08:04:19 PM EST, Patrice S wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Hi Tom, I've been playing Hong Kong style for a few months & just happened on your website: thanks for your copious, if overwhelming, amount of information 8^D I use a set at a local community center & the one dots resemble Zuni sun symbols, each red-&-white center design slightly different. What do these designs represent? (I have a non-smartphone but could text you my photo if you wish.) Thanks for your time & website!
Cheers, Patrice
Hi, Patrice! Every manufacturer uses their own ideas about what design details to put on their sets. I will need to see them if I'm to have any hope of helping you with your question. If you can send a picture to my email address, I'll see what I can do.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Thursday, February 16, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
This set has blatantly marked jokers
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 12:50:27 PM EST, Candy P wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: I have been given a vintage MahJong gift and though quite lovely, all the jokers are marked on the exterior with a border that would make it obvious that they are a joker? Why? How to play when knowing that tile would be a joker? Thank you...
What?? You mean when the tiles are stacked in a wall, it's obvious which tiles are jokers? I never heard of such a thing. I know that in the bad old days of the 50s and 60s, it was common to have blatantly-obvious flowers "planted" in the wall. Players in those days had to cannibalize flowers from other sets, resulting in mismatched tiles. Then they'd develop practices to distribute the marked flowers evenly throughout the wall, maybe even starting each player with one. Various strategies "emerge" from playing with marked tiles.
You will have to try various things with your play group when using that set. Could be fun, Candy.
I'd sure like to see these marked jokers, if you feel up to sending me pictures.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Thursday, February 16, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is this solitaire game even winnable?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 09:07:23?PM EST, Janie <giffinjon wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: In the Silly MahJong Pyramid(impossible) game, can a person win? I have been trying for three years. If it cannot be won, how to go on to next puzzle? Thank you. I love the Silly Mah Jong more than the others.
Janie
Sent from my iPad
Sorry, Janie, but I answer questions about real mah-jongg only. I haven't played the solitaire tile-matching game you're asking about. Mah-jongg tile-matching games are useful beginner aids for players of real mah-jongg, I'll give'em that.
Sounds like you're asking how to quit a too-difficult puzzle and move on to the next one. Three years on that one puzzle, my oh my. Hard to believe. For tech support, you'd have to ask the makers of your game. Most games have a menu or onscreen "Give up" button. Good luck.
If you are interested in playing real 4-player mah-jongg, there are lots of apps listed in FAQ 5. And lots of resources for learning real 4-player mah-jongg in the other FAQs. It won't take you three years to make progress, either!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Wednesday, February 15, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Wrong player discarded first
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 06:49:53?PM EST, dsms74 (null) wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
NMJL/american style question—-If, after the Charleston is completed, a player who is NOT East ‘starts’ the game by erroneously discarding a tile, what happens?
I believe that player would be dead for having 12 tiles in its hand, but others say a game does not begin until East discards. Look forward to your answer.
Thanks!
Sent from my iPad
Hi, dsms!
Mah Jongg Made Easy, the official rulebook of the NMJL, says that a player having too few tiles is one of the reasons that the player's hand may be declared dead. Rule 19.d. on page 21. If you don't have the rulebook, see FAQ 19-AA.
Then the question is, does the player to the right of the dead player pick and discard, or does East discard? The situation you describe is not the same thing as MJME rule 8 on page 19. Rule 8 describes what happens when non-East "assumes East position." But that rule applies if the false East is not holding too few tiles (and can remain East for the remainder of the hand). My belief is that East should discard, since the dead player had not really "assumed East position." My reasoning: East is holding 14 tiles. If players follow after the dead player, then on East's turn, East would not pick but would just discard. And that's just... weird. The player who's already holding 14 tiles should be the next to play after the dead player in this case.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
February 13, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
A tile was misnamed, part 2
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 06:02:18?PM EST, Katrina W wrote:
Thank you so much for the response.
You're welcome, Katrina.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 13, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
"Change of heart" on a mahj call, part 2
Re: Question on your AM #5 bulletin
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 04:41:47?PM EST, Debbie Barnett wrote:
And thank you! It takes a team to figure out some of these rules!
Kind Regards,
Debbie Barnett
Play safe out there, Debbie! And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
February 13, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
A tile was misnamed, causing a problem (FAQ 19-AY)
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 02:36:40?PM EST, Katrina W wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
In a recent game, a player announced a 2 Bam discard then before she laid it down she corrected it to a 2 Dot. The player across from her said that the 2 Bam would have been for MJ for her but she did not actually call MJ. In reading the NMJL Rules it says if a tile is named incorrectly and a player calls MJ based on the incorreclty named tile then the person who named it incorrectly pays times 4.
My interpretation of this situation was that because the player did not actually call MJ after the 2 Bam was announced incorrectly and before the tile was named correctly the rule does not apply and play should have just continued.
Can you confirm that this is the correct interpretation?
Thank you.
Hi, Katrina!
It was foolish for the player to say "that tile would have been mahj for me," because now everybody knows she can win on that tile. The game continues, because I'm with you - your interpretation agrees with FAQ 19-AY.4 - sort of. The time to say "that's my mahj tile" is before the error is corrected, not after. See what I wrote on Monday, August 1, 2022 (below), when jgalligan asked about the same situation.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 13, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
"Change of heart" on a mahj call (FAQ 19-AM.5)
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 02:29:12?PM EST, Debbie Barnett wrote:
Question on your AM #5 bulletin
Hi Tom,
I hope this email finds you well, and enjoying the East coast. Recently there was a question on one of the FB groups about changing one's mind after declaring Mah Jongg. The Admin of the group stated that you could change your mind as long as the one exposure placed on top of the rack could be used for another hand. She also cited the 2020 NMJL Bulletin (attached), question #10. If I am reading your answer correctly, there are no backsies. Since Mah Jongg Made Easy is far from easy to understand, I've always thought that their reference to Mah Jongg in Error on page, 16, 3a and page 17 4a of Mah Jongg Made Easy indicates you could not retract your Mah Jongg declaration regardless of having one exposure up that can be used toward another hand.
Today, a friend of mine called and spoke to Sandy at the League who said that if only one exposure has been put up and you can use that for another hand your hand is not DEAD.
What are your thoughts?
Kind Regards,
Debbie Barnett
Hi, Debbie!
That's interesting. I missed that 2020 answer; that clarifies the rule. I'll amend FAQ 19-AM.5 to include this codicil to the rule. Thanks!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 13, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
How does seat rotation work? (FAQ 19-BB)
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 11:38:22?AM EST, Richard K wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
When playing with 4 people does the person who brings the set always have to change seats after 4 games or can the others change seats around the person whose set they use?
Thanks
Hi, Richard!
See FAQ 19-BB, which explains the seat rotation process in detail. Original East is the person who will exchange seats with the player at the right after every 4th hand. In your group, the person whose set is being used is Original East. If the set's owner has a favorite rack they want to continue using, they can simply take it with them when changing seats.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Monday, February 13, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
A book to add to FAQ 3
On Saturday, February 11, 2023 at 08:34:20?PM EST, Pete Suchon wrote:
A new Mahjong book
Hi Tom,
I was recently reading through your Faq 3 and I may have a book you don’t list. It’s “All Your Mah-Jong Questions Answered British Rules” by Peter Gregory. ISBN 9798436561370. I bought it off AmazonUS.
It seems to be a compilation of questions from his website. My only complaint about the book is that I thought there would be the British Mah-Jong rules included but, sadly, they are not.
I hope you find this helpful and that you are happy and healthy out there on the East Coast.
-Pete-
"“Sometimes you have friends you don’t know you have in places you’ve never been.””
Thanks, Pete! I've added it to
FAQ 3. It's cold here but so far not as bad as last winter.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Sunday, February 12, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What is the point of the elaborate, time-consuming ceremony of building the wall?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, February 12, 2023 at 06:54:49?PM EST, Charles B wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
What is the point of the elaborate, time-consuming ceremony of building the wall? Why not just dump the tiles in a container and let players reach in and grab them? Or just shuffle them face down on the board?
Charles B
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Charles.
The main point of it is "it's the rule." Rules don't really need to be explained and justified. Why do we take turns counterclockwise but pick from the wall clockwise? Because that's the rule. Does it have to be justified?
That said, I can offer one benefit of the wall-building, which has been part of the game since its inception in the 1800s, by the way. It prevents cheating. Mah-jongg tiles have carved or inlaid designs; an experienced player can read a tile with their thumb. Especially a stickered joker - it's obvious when your thumb feels the sticker instead of a carved face. With a bucket of tiles or a jumble of tiles, if people aren't watching each other's hands like hawks, it's easy to feel a tile and choose not to take it. But when you have to take one particular tile and no other, that reduces the opportunities for cheating.
But if you and your group think wall-building is a waste of time, you can all choose to make up your own rule. See FAQ 14.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Sunday, February 12, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is there a rule, part 3
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 11:05:32 PM EST, Vicki S wrote:
Dealing tiles…
Another question please Tom. Is there a rule re: players pulling their own tiles during the deal?
When I’m East, I push out my entire wall, then count and pull back the final wall based on the dice roll. Remainder of my wall is in the middle of the table and everyone pulls their own. Most women I play with just separate the tiles against their rack and start handing out tiles. I want to pull my own. Am I weird??? Thanks!
Hi, Vicki. (1) Pushing out the entire wall and then pulling the dice-count wall back again gets the job done, but it's ... inelegant. (2) And "handing out tiles" isn't the way dealing is done.
1. The dealing FAQs in FAQ 19 include a diagram of how East can serve the East wall most elegantly. See FAQ 19-CH:
2. As for the deal itself, see FAQ 19-CA and see the back of the card. It says right there on the card that each player takes her own tiles, 4 at a time.
Every player should read the back of the NMJL card every year.
There may be changes, and many frequently asked questions
are answered on the card.
Every player owes it to the other
players
to know all these basic rules of the game.
So I recommend you read the back of the card in its entirety. If something there raises questions, feel free to ask them.
The back of the card cannot convey all the rules of this complicated game. I highly recommend that you also get a book. Your playing companions, it appears, have not read a book, and they would benefit from the knowledge you can gain from reading one.
Left: The League's official rulebook. Every player should have an up-to-date copy!
I don't sell them, and I'm not paid to say this. Just sayin' it's important to have and read.
Right: And then there's my book, "The Red Dragon & The West Wind." - It's not bad, if I do say so myself.
Those aren't the only books; see FAQ 3 for more books.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
February 2, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is there a rule that says I can't redeem a joker before calling a discard, part 2
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 10:02:33 PM EST, Vicki S wrote:
Re: Question please…
Thanks so much for the prompt reply Tom!! As you said, not what I was hoping to hear, but if the scenario crops up again, I will know exactly how to handle it…and how NOT to handle it!
You're welcome, Vicki!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
February 10, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Following the rules in our "friendly game"
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 07:17:38 PM EST, Hedy G wrote:
My mah-jongg question is:
Today during play, a player picked a tile, pulled it towards her and put it in front of her rack, face down and then decided she wanted the previous discarded tile. I said she can’t do that. She said “but I didn’t look at the tile”. Then it was determined that we play a friendly game and what is wrong with doing that. I, then said “friendly” has nothing to do with following the rules. None of the other two players wanted to agree with me because they hate to express an opinion. The bettor didn’t see what happened but also said “we play a friendly game”. I was so frustrated that I just gave in and said “friendly does not mean that rules don’t apply”. I also said, well I guess you are saying that I’m not friendly because I want to follow the rules. She was then allowed to call the previous tile. What was the correct call in that instance?
Thank you for your response
Hedy G, a long time follower
Sent from my iPad
You were outnumbered, Hedy. Two opposed and two abstained, leaving you all by your lonesome. What I would say in that situation is, "So we're setting a table rule that says it's okay to pick and move the wall tile and put it back if you change your mind after making a move. I just wanted to state the new rule we just made, and I'll try to remember it." Then, later, when somebody discards a tile you want, you can pick the wall tile and move it and then put it back and say, "Under the new rule, I can change my mind about taking this tile, and take the discard instead." It's kind of snide, and it might get you some blowback, but it cements the table rule that's been set. In the future, everybody will just remember the table rule, and this little squabble will fade into the past. Of course, then you need to remember the real rule the next time you play in a tournament, or with a rule-abiding group.
This issue, "play by the rules OR play a friendly game," is one that comes up a lot. In this case, the voting majority decided that this particular
change of heart rule is "unfriendly." There may be other rules that the voting majority will decide are unfriendly. And that's what it comes down to: it's table rules. Pretty much every table sets some not-standard practice in place.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, February 10, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is there a rule that says I can't redeem a joker before calling a discard?
On Friday, February 10, 2023 at 06:28:14 PM EST, Vicki S wrote:
Fwd: Question please…
Hi there Tom!
> If the player to my left throws a 5 dot which I want (I need four of them and on my rack I have 2 and a joker)…can I call it and expose AFTER I exchange for a 8 bam joker which another player has showing…can I do all that at my turn???
> Exchange for the 8 bam joker, then immediately call the 5 dot from the table and expose two 5 dots and two jokers properly??
> This scenario came up today and I thought it was proper since it all happened during my turn.
> Is there any rule that says you must pick the next tile from the WALL before exchanging for a joker??
> Many thanks!
Yes, Vicki, there is such a rule. It's on page 23 of the official rulebook.
In my book, the rule is on p. 58 (rule 86.a).
By the way, the rule is also on the back of the card - says right there that you can redeem a joker only after you have either picked or claimed a tile. In other words, you have to be holding 14 tiles BEFORE you may redeem a joker. That means you are not allowed to do the thing you described in your email. It's a hard rule, I know, but we all had to learn it.
Explained fully in FAQ 19-M.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, February 10, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
How are walls served in a 3-player game, part 2
On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 11:53:54 AM EST, Sue wrote:
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
THANK YOUUUUUUU
You're welcome, Sue.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
February 9, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
How are walls served in a 3-player game?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 08:47:07 AM EST, Sue D wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Hello. When you are playing mah-jongg with three people who’s wall comes out first second third and fourth. My real question is does the third person‘s wall come out or does the wall where no one is sitting come out first. I hope this makes sense
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Sue!
Dealer's wall comes out first, then the wall is served clockwise, same as when there are four players. See FAQ 19-Q.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, February 9, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
A person takes a joker from me and then Mah jongs
Mah-Jongg Q A
On Wednesday, February 8, 2023 at 01:54:19 PM EST, Sandy/Robert N wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: A person takes a joker from me and then Mah jongs, do I pay her twice as if I gave her Mah Jong? The joker is used with my tiles on my board and not in the discarded tiles.
Hi, Sandy/Robert! You wrote:
Q: A person takes a joker from me and then Mah jongs, do I pay her twice as if I gave her Mah Jong?
A: No, you pay her double as if she picked her own mah-jongg. And everybody else pays double, too. See FAQ 19-AN. Win by joker redemption counts as self-pick.
Q: The joker is used with my tiles on my board and not in the discarded tiles.
A: Yes, that's the only way somebody can get one of your jokers. A discarded joker is a dead tile. See FAQ 19-G.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Wednesday, February 8, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
The value of this set, part 2
Re: Vintage Mah Jongg set
On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 04:42:22 PM EST, Phyllis M wrote:
image0.jpegimage1.jpegimage2.jpegimage3.jpegimage4.jpegimage5.jpegimage6.jpegimage7.jpegimage8.jpegimage9.jpegimage10.jpegimage11.jpeg
Sent from my iPhone
Yes I do not want to open the box as it is sealed. These pictures were from another set we had
I'm sorry, Phyllis, but I'm not going to be able to help you. I need to see all the tiles (and the pix must be at least 1024 pixels wide, not 320) of the set whose valuation you're requesting. I need to see the racks. I need to know if there are paper materials. Without that, I cannot give you my valuation. You can rewrap the racks, and you don't need to remove the plastic wrap on the tile trays. It's essential to know how many jokers are present. The set's value is greatly diminished if there are fewer than 8 jokers. As it is, it's a pig in a poke. Or Schrödinger's cat.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
February 7, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
The value of this set
On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 03:15:57 PM EST, Phyllis M wrote:
Fwd: Vintage Mah Jongg set
Could you please let me know the value of this set
Thank you
Phyllis M
I have a brand new Cardinal Mah Jongg set that has never been opened and still in the manufacturers original packaging. We had another set and opened it to see the contents but did not lay out the tiles as indicated on your web page. I have included some pictures below.
Answers to the questions on the web page.
1: Contents 168 tri color tiles, dice, chips and 5 tile holders,
2: Brand new, never used
3: I believe the tiles are Catalin tiles
4: Purchased – My father acquired the set and I am not sure of the date, but would thin sometime in the 1960/70s
5: Did not take the dimensions of the tiles
6: 168 tricolored tiles
7: I do not have a listing of all of the pieces
8: Container Faux alligator
9: Condition of container – brand new, never used
10: Not sure
11: Craks – appeared to be closer to the 1970s example on web page but not exact
12 – 13: only pictures are below
13: I believe at least 4 jokers
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Hi, Phyllis. I note that your message was a forward; that may explain why the images didn't come through. I do need to see those. And I do need an exact count of the jokers. And I need to see what your tricolor layers look like. Am I to assume that you do not want to unwrap the tiles, in order to retain the set's resale value? Is that why you didn't lay out the tiles for me? And I do need to see all the pieces (racks, dice, any paper materials, etc.).
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Tuesday, February 7, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
I was dead but nobody called me dead
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 11:38:59 PM EST, Carolyn wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I was going for the 6th hand in 2468. I had four 2 cracks exposed on my rack. In error I called an 8 crack and exposed three 8 cracks and a joker. I knew I was dead but my table mates did not call me dead right away. The question is when I was called dead, was the joker which was in the 8 crack grouping available for exchange? Or because it was the 8 cracks that made my hand dead, was it also dead. Thank you.
Sent from my iPad
Hi, Carolyn! Since nobody called you dead, the joker in the death-causing exposure remains available for redemption/exchange. Somebody really should have called you dead.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Tuesday, February 7, 2023, 9:25 am
Rochester, New York, USA
What should a player do if they see that another player is dead?
On Monday, February 6, 2023 at 08:19:23 PM EST, Kay D wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is: if a player determines that another player’s hand is dead, what should that player do? Thank you,
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Kay! The rules say that player can call the other player dead. See FAQ 19-AA.
I recommend calling a player dead when the player rightly can be called dead.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Monday, February 6, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Can she change her mind?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 10:22:41 AM EST, FLORENCE C wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: if a player starts to discard ( tile in hand but not yet on the table) calls it 2 crack but then looks at the tile in her hand, and it’s a 2 bam, can she put it back in her rack and get her 2 crack that she wanted to discard?
Thank you in advance for your answer.
Flo
Hi, Flo! Sorry this is a day late. I just now found your email in my Spam folder. Anyway, if the tile has not yet touched the table, but she HAS said its name in full, she can't take it back. The tile in her hand is "down"!
See FAQ 19-A.
She has to put it down and let go of it. See FAQ 19-AM, the "Change of Heart" FAQ. She also has to say the tile's actual name. See FAQ 19-AY, the "Misnamed Discard" FAQ; the game can't go on until the live discard is properly named.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
February 5, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Add this info to FAQ 2b, why doncha
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 02:28:52 PM EST, Laura H wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
You have an article that describes different styles of Mah Jongg. I play American Mah Jongg with NMJL rules and Wright Patterson Mah Jongg. Both styles have a Charleston with exchange of tiles before East discards first tile. I don’t know how many other versions have this feature but probably not many. This might be useful info to add to the article. It would help people identify which style of Mah Jongg was played.
Sent from my iPad
I think that's a great idea, Laura! So I did it. I also had to mention, then, the Goulash in British/Western rules. FAQ 2b. Thanks for the suggestion!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Sunday, February 5, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Approx value or age of set
On Sunday, February 5, 2023 at 01:30:50 PM EST, Shea F wrote:
Approx value or age of set
I am debating on buying this set but would like to know the approx era or worth of the set before I place my bid.
Where can I send my donation to for your assistance?
Thank you,
Shea F
Hi, Shea!
It's a fairly standard 1920s boxed set. It has a couple of desirable tiles, but unfortunately, the set is in not-good condition.
The box itself is very dinged up. The brass is bent and not shiny. Apparently, the sliding front is present, but I can't tell if the slide fits, and slides in place smoothly.
The tiles look to be dirty.
The bits & pieces
drawer contains extra pieces that do not belong. Those black things at upper left, and those white things at lower right did not come with this set originally (a previous owner put them there). No paper materials. I don't know if the dice coffin is complete or if all dice and wind markers are present in the lower left corner division. There are plenty of scoring sticks, and I'm not concerned whether there are enough.
On the plus side, there are some rare tile types. The 9 Dot tiles exhibit an unusual design (diagonals, making a diamond shape), and the 1 Bams are the rare "bamboo shoot" design rather than a bird. The flower tiles are unremarkable.
I can't tell if there is any identifying mark on the bottom or back of the box. Still, it's very representative of the type of set that marked the beginning of the mah-jongg craze of the 1920s.
If the set was shiny and clean and un-marred, it would be worth over $100. As it is, I wouldn't pay more than $60 for it. Even though it has those rare 1 Bams and 9 Dots. If the tiles can color-match with another of my sets, I might want to use those rarer tiles to gussy-up my existing set. Then again, if that's what a collector wanted the set for, to cannibalize it, those rare tiles could alone be worth more than $60. As a purchase of a set, though, I don't think it looks pleasant enough to play with, thus my $60 valuation. But that's just me. Another person might want to take this on as a project, to start a search for a better box, maybe replace any other missing bits & pieces, clean up and restore the rest; rescue it, as they say, cannibalizing as needed along the way. It would be a lot of work, and could well require additional money.
To make a donation, you can click the link in my sig, below. If you don't want to use Paypal, you can just donate to a local homeless charity instead.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Sunday, February 5, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is there a rule about this?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 01:06:20 PM EST, Ray C wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: Is there any rule about a player CONSTANTLY repeating the last discarded tile?
囧
No, there's no such rule, Ray. But if you'd like to tell me more, I'm listening.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Saturday, February 4, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Donation
On Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 05:19:09 AM EST, service@paypal wrote:
You received a payment
Hello, Thomas Sloper
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Thank you again, Evelyn! I appreciate you.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Saturday, February 4, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Verbalizing the mahj call
On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 03:22:03 PM EST, storyc wrote:
calling for mahj
Hi Mr Sloper.
I have been rereading your book and making notes for the lessons I will be teaching soon. My question concerns #61 in your list of American Mahjong Rules.
When calling for an exposure a simple "I want that" is used. (rule # 59)
But when claiming a tile for Mahj, #61a says the player must clearly and unambiguously let other players know she is claiming for a win. It is "wrong" or "against the rules" to say "I want that." Then declare mahj? Or make the exposure and then say Mahj? Or my favorite, "wait I don't have a discard, I think I mahjed"!
Must the call for the discard declare Mahj?
Is this breaking a rule or just not good mahjong etiquette.
Thanks
Story
Hi, Story! You wrote:
Q: When calling for an exposure a simple "I want that" is used. (rule # 59)
A: Yes, RDWW #59: ... "I want that," or words to that effect. For humor's sake at key moments in a game, I've been known to say "gimme!"
Q: But when claiming a tile for Mahj, #61a says the player must clearly and unambiguously let other players know she is claiming for a win
A:
Actually, that's
RDWW #65.a.
If you're winning right now, which stops the game, you need to make it clear as early as possible that that's what's going on. It's just logical "best practice."
Q: It is "wrong" or "against the rules" to say "I want that." Then declare mahj?
A:
It's not against the rules to say "I want that" when calling for mahj. But that's only the beginning. Go the rest of the way and declare mahj. It's fine to say "I want that. Mahj!"
Q: Or make the exposure and then say Mahj?
A: That's illegal.
1. MJME 2020 page 14 (RDWW #59):
You have to verbalize the call first.
2.
Also on MJME 2020 page 14 (RDWW #60):
Then you can make an exposure.
So no, you can't legally make an exposure without verbalizing first.
But note that it happens all the time, most of the time without objection from other players. But it can be a real problem if there's a conflicting claim.
If a player makes an exposure before speaking the claim, and another player also calls the tile,
then the player who acted before speaking has "slam-exposed." That's an aggressive move that's frowned upon (see MJME2020, rule 13 on page 20). And is technically a violation of the rule stated on MJME2020 page 14 (RDWW #s 59 and 60).
Especially if you're declaring mahj, when you want to override a claim for exposure. JUST SAY SO. "Mahj" is much more powerful than "I want that," and overrides it.
So, while exposing before speaking may be overlooked once in a while, it's definitely a huge problem if you do it when someone else also wants the discard. So just always speak before acting, and treat it as a rule, not just a recommendation.
Q: Or my favorite, "wait I don't have a discard, I think I mahjed"!
A: Well, that's not optimal, but it gets the job done.
Q: Must the call for the discard declare Mahj?
A: I think I've answered this. If not, let me know.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
2/3/23
Rochester, New York, USA
What happens if three players go dead, part 2
On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 12:55:09 AM EST, Terry P wrote:
Re: MJ question
Thank you.
The auto speak got me again. I meant self picked not picture. I think I got the answer from your FAQ. All three people went dead at different times but because they had incorrect amount of tiles in their hands it is a very strange occurrence. The remaining player felt she should get paid as if it were people going dead from incorrectly calling Mahjong. I can’t imagine this ever happening again and thank you.
You're welcome, Terry. The remaining player's feelings do not outweigh the rules. See the FAQ:
(b): This was not a case of someone declaring mahj in error, another throwing in the hand, and another one of them declaring mahj in error.
(c): This was not a case of someone declaring mahj in error, and two players throwing in the hand.
(d): This was not a case of someone declaring mahj in error, and a player destroying the wall before it's realized that the mahj was erroneous.
(e): This was a case of three players going dead by other means, thus the survivor throws in her hand (nobody gets paid, no matter what the survivor's "feelings" are about it). Shuffle, deal (next dealer takes over), and play another hand. It's in the book.
I totally get it about autocorrect; I call it "autodefect."
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, 2/3/23
Rochester, New York, USA
What happens if three players go dead?
On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 10:08:52 PM EST, Terry P wrote:
MJ question
Hi. Here is my question.
We had a strange situation. Three of the four players became dead during the game. The fourth player was still alive with an intact hand. What happens? We thought everyone should pay the full amount to the remaining player. We weren’t sure if it should be a single or double, as if she had a picture on Mahjong. What is your take on this. What is the rule if there is one? Thank you.
Terry P
Hi, Terry! There is indeed a rule. See FAQ 19-BW. The answer to your question is "it depends." You didn't give me full details (how each player went dead), so the FAQ will tell you the answer. Also, did you check the back of the card?
And I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by having "a picture on Mahjong."
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, Groundhog Day, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Knitted Straight
On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 07:54:16 PM EST, Lynn M wrote:
Knitted Straight
Hello, Tom--
My Chinese MJ group had a question today and I can't find the answer on your site: Can a Knitted Straight combine with All Types, if the remaining sets in the hand contain both winds and dragons? For example:
147 258 369 EEE RR
We know that Greater Honors and Knitted Tiles & Lesser Honors and Knitted Tiles can't combine with All Types (since those hands MUST be all types), but what about the above hand? Also, are the 147, 258 & 369 considered "sets?"
Thanks,
Lynn M
Hi, Lynn! Long time no see. The information you're looking for wouldn't be on my site, since my site does not define full rule sets for any variant (other than some documents readers have sent in, in the /downlode/ folder). For this answer we have to check "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," page 183:
35. Knitted Straight 12 points
A special straight made of knitted sets: 1-4-7 in one suit, 2-5-8 in another suit, and 3-6-9 in the third suit. May combine with All Chows and with Lesser Honors and Knitted Tiles. May not combine with Edge Wait or Closed Wait.
If you add a dragon pung and a wind pair (or vice versa), then you have All Types, and of course you can claim it. There's no need for the rulebook (upon which my book was based) to specify every possible permissible combination; it was deemed necessary to specify only those combos which are implied, included, or otherwise impermissible. If it doesn't say you can't, and it doesn't violate any of the exclusionary principles outlined in FAQ 22, then you can.
You also asked, 'are the 147, 258 & 369 considered "sets?"' Note that it says right there in the book that they are "knitted sets," and note that it says right there that the hand may be combined with All Chows (if your fourth set is a chow, of course). That tells you that these sets are considered chows for the purposes of the hand definition, name, and combos, and exclusions. So they are "sets," technically, but they are not exposable sets.
Good to get a question about a different variant now and then!
Play safe out there, Lynn. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, Groundhog Day, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
When is it too late to stop the Charleston?
On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:01:10 AM EST, Elinor G wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I have a question about stopping the Charleston. You state:” Once somebody has picked up her second left pass, it's too late to stop the Charleston.**”. You do not say that the person has to have LOOKED AT the tiles. SO, my question is: Is just picking up the tiles and NOT looking at them enough to stop the Charleston? Or does the person who picked up the tiles have to have looked at them as well? Thank you! Ellie
Sent from my iPad
Hi, Ellie! You quoted my FAQ 19-AG.
As you noted, I wrote that answer (I chose the words that answer is made of, to address the question "when is it too late to stop the Charleston?"). So where did I get off putting those words together? Let's see if that statement can be backed up by the League.
This fine point is not addressed in the rulebook; the rulebook only says that the second Charleston "is permitted only if all four players agree. If any player objects, the second Charleston is not played." And that doesn't clarify with fine precision when it's too late to "object." So I needed to dig deeper.
The rulebook is not the only source of League rules. I also checked the League's yearly newsletters going back 20 years, and found no answer to your question, except this from the 2023 newsletter (issued about one month ago): "If one or more players have put down their pass, but no one has picked up the second left pass, then it is permissible to stop the Charleston."
That's what I'd previously written in FAQ 19-AG. No mention of actually seeing the tiles. Just picking them up. But does "picked up" mean just "lifted," regardless of whether tiles have been seen or not? I mean, yeah, those tiles were lifted, but how far were they lifted? I needed to dig even deeper.
Sometimes, when a rule doesn't clarify sufficiently, we have to look at other rules and look for an overriding principle. Regarding taking a tile from the wall, the simple act of lifting or moving the tile commits the player to the play. But regarding taking a discard, it's permissible to lift it and then put it back. What's the difference between these two plays, and what makes one of them non-rescindable? One way of looking at it is that the face-down tile can't be lifted and returned, but the face-up tile can.
Face-up tiles are known to all; face-down tiles are not. And an experienced player can sometimes feel the face of the tile and determine what it is.
By that principle, it makes sense to rule that lifting the Second Left crosses the line, making it too late to stop the dance.
I like to think I'm a reasonable person. If it was me who was in the act of lifting tiles and a friend of mine says "I object to the second Charleston!" what am I going to do? Am I going to complain "no way! I already lifted the tiles"? No, I'd put those tiles down again, since I haven't seen them. Those unseen tiles can reasonably go back to where they came from, as far as I'm concerned. And I'm the person who strung together those words that you asked about! I lifted them but I don't feel that I've fully picked them up.
But I'm aware that a lot of players are highly competitive and get miffed (that's a polite word that sometimes means "pissed as hell") if somebody dares to stop the Charleston, so I understand the need for drawing a definitive line.
The upshot: I personally would draw the line at seeing the tiles, not just lifting them. But a strict reading of the ruling stated in last month's newsletter says just lifting them is enough. Until I re-checked last month's newsletter, I was considering changing my answer in FAQ 19-AG. But now I think I'll leave it as is. The League says "picked up," and that means "lifted," and that's that. The League makes the rules.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Groundhog Day, Thursday, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
We fondly call you the mahj guru.
On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 08:45:31 PM EST, service@paypal wrote:
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That's so awesome, Courtney! Thank you so much for the donation!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you!
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Saturday, January 28, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
This group never plays the second Charleston, part 2
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 10:13:14 PM EST, Gail R wrote:
Your answer was very diplomatic. Thanks.
You're welcome, Gail.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Saturday, January 28, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Conflicting claims for mahj
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 07:53:51 PM EST, Sandra S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
The opponent across from me threw the tile I needed for mah jongg. I called it..said it was mah jongg and exposed my hand. My hand was correct. The person on my left then said..oh, it’s my mah jongg too. I declared she was too late and she should have called it before me, not after me. Especially since I had already exposed my hand. Am I correct? Thank you.
Sent from my iPad
You were exactly right, Sandra. It's not a race, but there is such a thing as "too late." See FAQ 19-H.3, and see the League's official rulebook, page 20, rule 13(b).
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, January 27, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
This group never plays the second Charleston
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 07:03:37 PM EST, Gail R wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Sent from Mail for Windows
I played with a new group who claim the second round of Charleston is optional and they do not ever play the second round. When I looked at the card it does say Second Charleston (optional) but every other game I’ve played in only stops if one person does NOT want to continue the second Charleston They do play a courtesy pass after one Charleston.
HELP!
Hi, Gail!
It sounds like your theory is that this group misunderstands what "optional" means. But for all I know, maybe they've all come to feel that nothing new goes around in the second Charleston and so they have all agreed to just skip it.
The rule is that any one person can stop after the first Charleston. There is no rule that says that if three people don't want a second Charleston and one does want it, that that one can have her way. Your experience with other groups is the norm.
It's funny; most of the stopping-the-Charleston complaints I get is from players who complain that one of their players stops the dancing too frequently. See
FAQ 28. I always try to calm those complaints by pointing out that "nothing new goes around in the second dance anyway." That's not 100% true, of course; I have gotten good tiles in the second Charleston, on occasion.
In most groups, players cry foul if anybody stops the dance, so I made this diagram:
But that's the opposite of your problem, so don't look at that.
Let's give this a try: next time, if you really want to go around again, you can poll the others: "I'd really like to go the second round. Does anybody else want to?" If there is even one person who says "no," then there is no second Charleston. It takes only one person to cause a stop.
Look at it like this is a broadening experience for you. Lots of people play lots of ways, and when you're in Rome, you have to do as the Romans do.
I'm adding this to FAQ 28.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, January 27, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
How do you teach slow players, part 3
On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 04:19:49 PM EST, lindaz wrote:
Fwd: slow players (pt 2)
Hey Tom-
Happy New Year! I saw the question about slow players and have some suggestions to offer.
1. Explain to beginners at the start of instruction how important it is to keep up with the group.
2. Usually slow persons are beginners, so seat them with other beginners if possible. If there is only one beginner, have her sit t an experienced person who can explain what her reasoning is for a play. Of course this is only possible if everyone at the table agrees. When the newbie is more comfortable, have her play and the experienced player will sit next to her and suggest moves--as long as the other players agree. All of us were new at one time and most will have the patience with this for a few times.
3. If slowness continues, kindly approach her and say something like "We notice you seem to struggle to make a decision when it's your turn to play. We've ALL experienced this in the beginning--it's very frustrating to everyone --you feel pressure to not hold everyone up and other players want to keep things moving. We really enjoy your company and have some ideas that have helped us." Explain that the only way to play faster is to play more often and LEARN THE CARD. Join an online group (I like Real MJ). Practice every day--you can't expect to speed up by playing once a week in the beginning. Use an egg timer while you play online and strive for improvement.
If a newcomer asks to join your group, welcome her cordially but explain there is a policy to play within 15 sec. or so. That way a new member will strive to keep up. It's really awkward to have to approach someone with this complaint but it's up to the new player to adapt to the group's rules. You can make a joke out of it--"Yeah, in the past we've had to behead a few people if they were too slow and you seem like a nice person we'd enjoy playing with."
It's incumbent upon the teacher to emphasize the importance of practice, and playing online takes the pressure off of playing in a group while learning. We've ALL struggled in the beginning!!
Thanks for all the teaching you offer--Linda
Nice, Linda!
Two tips I tell my students about are:
To learn the card, go through the card and build each hand. Make it in numerous ways (with dots, then with bams, etc.). This tip only works for students who own a set of tiles.
To learn the tiles and make it easier for yourself to scan the discard floor and recognize tiles, get one of those mah-jongg tile-matching games on your mobile device or personal computer. Playing a tile-matching game gives you lots more confidence when faced with a bunch of face-up tiles.
But yeah, your kinder gentler "we all go through it" approach is good. I'm adding this to the Teaching FAQ.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, January 27, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What if East has mah-jongg before the Charleston starts?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 08:49:19 AM EST, Roni L N wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
If a player is east at the break of the wall takes her tiles & has mah jong right before passing starts does that player still has to finish all the passing or can declare mah jong before the passing starts
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Roni! You can read about "Heavenly Hand" in FAQ 19-BJ. And it's on page 14 of Mah Jongg Made Easy, the official rulebook of the NMJL.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, January 26, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Are they Japanese, part 2
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:30:27 PM EST, Rachel E wrote:
thank you for the quick response. You are correct, there are 16 winds! And yes, there are already four blank tiles in the set and the owner can provide four more to make eight Jokers.
You noted the smaller size of the tiles. Will those fit in a standard rack that I can order online?
I believe the store said these sets were from around 1948, but I’ll double check.
The store is asking $150, which felt quite reasonable after looking at both used sets online and new sets. I am
open to other suggestions for finding a set.
Rachel E
Sent from my iPhone
Good morning, Rachel.
US$150 is much too much for this type of set. Disclaimer: I stopped checking mah-jongg set prices in Los Angeles' Chinatown when the COVID pandemic hit, so it's been at least 4 years since I set eyes on in-person retail sales. But I find it hard to believe that the price would have skyrocketed to 200% or 300% what such sets went for before the pandemic. A set like that should be priced at no more than $70 or $80 at most, due to inflation. Maybe the seller is charging you for two sets (the only way to get more blank tiles is to cannibalize a second set). I have 2 or 3 similar sets in my collection; I paid maybe $50 (give or take $10) each for them. If you're going to pay double, you might as well get both whole sets.
As for rack fit, small tiles fit just fine on standard-size American racks. There would be a problem only with big tiles. See this illustration from FAQ 7-D, the "Bits and Pieces" FAQ:
1. The back of the rack should be at least as high as the thickness of two of your tiles.
2. The horizontal top surface of the rack should be at least as wide as the longest dimension of one of your tiles. You can see in example B what can happen when the back is too short and the top is not wide enough.
As for when the set was manufactured, 1948 seems awfully specific. One of the tiny images you sent me shows a tiny corner of the instruction manual included in the set. It's possible that that booklet was dated 1948, which would not necessarily apply to the set's date of manufacture. If the set was made 75 years ago, I would think the cellophane wrap would have aged more. I can't state definitively when that set was manufactured with the limited information I have. All I have to go on is the similarity between the set pictured and the sets in my collection and four tiny images of tiles in trays. What year the set was manufactured has no bearing on its value, since it's a fairly common type of set.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, January 26, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Are they Japanese?
On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 08:45:54 PM EST, Rachel E wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I happened upon three vintage mahjongg sets in a tobacco store in Cambridge, MA. (Photos below) They say they are Japanese, but don’t match the descriptions I am finding of Japanese sets.
Each set has:
The full 36 tiles of the three suits
Four flowers
Four seasons
12 winds
12 dragons
Four blank tiles
The owner is offering to provide me with four additional, matching blank tiles so that I can create 8 Jokers.
The tiles are labeled with Western numbers (1-9) and letters (N,W,S,E). The dragons are marked traditionally: the white is blank save for the letter P and the red and green dragons have the corresponding letters for the Chinese word (C for red and F for green).
In addition, these “Japanese” sets do not have four Red Fives and, as I said before, have four flowers and four seasons, so they give me eight tiles I can use as flowers.
I am curious what you think about this and if perhaps these sets are mismarked and are not Japanese. In addition, am I correct that I can use one of these sets for American mahjongg, once I secure the additional four blank tiles?
I do plan on buying racks if I buy one of these seats.
Thank you very much.
IMG_4893.jpegIMG_4892.jpegIMG_4891.jpegIMG_4890.jpeg
Rachel E
(She/Her/Hers)
“Well-behaved women seldom make history.” — Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Hi, Rachel!
Those sets could well be Japanese. Check to see if there are any papers included in the set (in front cover inside pocket), see if there's any Japanese writing. Or Korean writing, for that matter.
This type of set has smaller tiles (like Japanese tiles), and comes in a Japanese-style case. Probably made in Japan for export to the West - but not to play Japanese mah-jongg. Imagine the Japanese manufacturer, thinking "Whatever kind of mah-jong they play over there, this set is okay, from what I could tell from the illustrations in that old book."
You also asked "In addition, am I correct that I can use one of these sets for American mahjongg, once I secure the additional four blank tiles?"
It depends. Do those sets have four unmarked blank tiles in addition to the four trays of tiles you showed me? Because you need EIGHT more tiles than what you showed me in your four photos.
Also, I count 16 winds and 12 dragons in that fourth photo.
Lastly, I don't know what "vintage" means to you, but I imagine these sets were made in the 1980s, give or take a decade.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
January 2, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is the person dead?
On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 11:34:13 AM EST, Virginia wrote:
Calling a hand dead
If a person throws a tile and then a person calls the title for Mah Jongg but picks up the wrong tile and puts it on their rack with the rest of the tiles is the person dead?
Yes, Virginia. The person has an invalid hand. If the person had picked up the wrong discard and then looked at it and put it down and picked up the right discard, that would have been okay. But placing the tile atop the rack commits the play, and is not rescindable. See FAQ 19-AM.2 which cites a letter from the NMJL that states the rule in writing.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Wednesday, January 25, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What can we do about our slow player?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 01:05:30 AM EST, Sherry B wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: Hi, is there a rule on how long a player can take on each turn? We have one player who takes at least 5 minutes every turn. It takes the pleasure out of the game. What do you suggest? Thank you, Sherry
Sent from my iPhone
No, Sherry, there's no rule. I suggest you read these:
The Slow Player FAQ, FAQ 19-BA.
Column 621 discusses the psychology of slow players. Try to understand what might be going on in your slow player's head.
Column 375 also discusses some techniques you can try when faced with a slow player who's negatively affecting the group's fun. (Probably pretty much what FAQ 19-BA says.)
You need to start a conversation with your group. Make sure the other players are united with you in your desire to make the game move faster than a glacier. As I wrote to Story C ("How do you teach slow players to play faster?", January 18, below), you could decree a time limit. When the time runs out, you can tell the player, "discard a tile now, or we'll choose one for you."
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Wednesday, January 25, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Truth be told, any slow player tips are likely to just "waste your time and annoy the pig." I'm not being nasty, I'm not name-calling - just referencing a Robert Heinlein quote, "Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig." Keep the slow player as is, or get a new player who isn't so slow. That's what it'll likely come down to. - Tom
What do I have here?
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:59:03 PM EST, Tracie M wrote:
Mah-Jong Book..
Hello, I'm wondering what I have here with this book. I can't seem to find one like it anywhere, is it really rare? Is it valuable? Any information would be helpful. It's called The American Code of Laws of Mah Jong. It's a small and thin old hardcover book. I've attached pics so you can see what it is. Thanks in advance for your time & trouble! Sincerely, Tracie ??
Hi, Tracie!
I can't tell you that this book is rare. I can only tell you that I haven't run across it myself, and I don't have one in my mah-jongg library. It might be rare. I have the Laws included in other books from the 1920s, so the information in the book is not rare. But I didn't know that there was a standalone book on the Laws.
Its value depends on not just its rarity but also on its condition. Your photo shows that part of the cover appears to be warped or wrinkled and shiny, but that might be an artifact of the photograph; all I'm saying is I can't tell what condition the book is in. From your second photo, it appears that the paper is very yellowed and the binding is loose. I assume its condition is one or the other of these two condition ratings:
GOOD - Item is worn but reasonably attractive; any normal person would notice the defects without having to look for them. All defects must be noted.
VERY GOOD - Item has a few defects that any normal person would notice upon close examination. All defects must be noted.
A collector might pay anywhere from US$15 to US$50 for it, I assume, depending on condition.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Tuesday, January 24, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is it a rule to separate exposures, part 2
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 11:03:23 PM EST, marsha c wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I actually found FAQ 19-AX about 3 minutes after I hit the send button in my email. We have a very friendly game and we do leave space between exposures. We just wanted to know if it was a rule. Love your website and I appreciate all your hard work.
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Wow, thank you, Marsha! And good job finding the answer in FAQ 19. I repeat my recommendation that every table have a copy of the League's rulebook. I refer to my copy frequently.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Tuesday, January 24, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Is it a rule to separate exposures? Or just good etiquette?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 02:02:17 PM EST, marsha c wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Is there a rule that says that your exposures must be separated on your rack or is this just good etiquette?
Thanks.
Hi, Marsha!
There's no rule that says exposures must be separated. On page 14 of Mah Jongg Made Easy, the official rulebook of the NMJL (every table should have a copy), it says "it is courteous to leave a space between the exposures." I say it's not "just good etiquette" - I say it's "bad manners" to NOT leave a space between the exposures. The purpose of making exposures is to enable other players to see at a glance what progress an opponent is making. Trying to make it harder for other players to read your exposures would be an aggressive and unfriendly tactic. See FAQ 19-AX.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Monday, January 23, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
She uses her hands to push out the wall.
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, January 23, 2023 at 10:23:34 AM EST, Linda S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Good morning, Tom. This is a "breaking the east wall" question. A person I play with does not follow the standard procedures. She does not use her rack or pusher, instead she uses only her hands. After rolling the dice, she slides her rack back away from the wall. She counts the tiles and slightly separates the wall into two sections Then she removes her two stacks of tiles (her first draw)from the section on the left and places them on the left side/corner of the table. Next, using only her hands on either end, she pushes the left wall section into position in the center of the table. She picks up her first draw and puts it behind her rack, then slides the remaining section on the right to the left side against her pusher. Granted, all the tiles end up in the correct location, but she is interested in playing in a tournament. I believe there she could get “called out” because her method could make cheating easier, cause problems if walls fail when being pushed out, and sometimes the north player waits for her to pull her initial tiles forgetting she already did so. Would appreciate your opinion and thanks. Linda
Hi, Linda!
I don't see a problem. You pointed out three potential problems:
1. Her method could make cheating easier - how? I don't see it.
2. She might destroy the wall - sure, it's possible, but has she destroyed the wall, in your memory, using her method? It's only a problem if she does destroy the wall. In every mah-jongg variant except American, there are no racks, and people push walls with their hands all the time.
3. Next in line after East* might sit there waiting for something that's already happened - sure, that's possible, but one with a simple remedy.
Overall, you haven't convinced me that your player's method of serving the wall is bad or wrong. Mind you, I have seen people use bad methods of serving the wall, and at tournaments, too. But your player's method isn't bad, no matter if somebody complains about it. Tournament players can be overly picky sometimes, but most of them are nice and laissez-faire, understanding that different folks use different strokes.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Monday, January 23, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
* In all forms of mah-jongg in which seat positions are ascribed a compass direction, "North" actually sits at East's left, not right. In an American tournament, you'll usually see "N" on the northernmost wall and "E" on the easternmost wall, but this is not in keeping with the rest of the mah-jongg world. Under American rules, the only seat position that has a compass direction name is East. That's why in all my diagrams about American mah-jongg, I mark the seats (moving counterclockwise) E, 2, 3, 4. See FAQ 20-K (which describes compass-direction seating in un-American mah-jongg). - Tom
Eek! I wanted that!
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 06:35:22 PM EST, loulou2244 wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:..a player has exposed 3 8 kraks and a joker. A player throws an 8 krak not seeing she could have replaced the joker. Can the player with the 8 kraks pick up the 8 krak, replace the joker, and use the joker in her hand to call mah jongg?
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Sorry, LouLou, but no.
A discarded redeemable may not be taken for the purpose of joker redemption.
See FAQ 19-G, 'Can I claim a discarded redeemable tile?'.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, January 20, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
I went dead; were my jokers still available, part 2 (She went dead; were her jokers still available?)
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 08:49:00 PM EST, Lynn C wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Player 1 exposed 3 tiles.
Player 2 knew this exposure could only be from a concealed hand.
Player 2 told Player 1 she was dead and explained why.
Do the exposed 3 tiles stay exposed or do they go back into Player 1’s rack?
Thank you
Hi, Lynn!
After Player 2 told Player 1 that Player 1 was dead, I assume Player 1 agreed that she was dead.
Because the exposure is unambiguous in showing that the player's hand is dead, it must be returned to the sloping front of the player's rack. It's like I said to ildiko M one week ago ('I went dead; were my jokers still available,' below); at the time somebody called Player 1 dead for having an exposure that unambiguously was illegal/erroneous/dead, the exposure that made the hand dead needed to be returned to the sloping front of the rack. See full explanation of this rule in FAQ 19-P.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, January 19, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What does "in the rack" mean, as opposed to "on the rack"?
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 03:10:23 PM EST, <debarons wrote:
Re: Placing Discard On or In the Caller's Rack
Hi Tom
Another of the "change of heart" rules: a caller may pick up the fresh live discard and put it back, so long as they do not put it on or in the rack
What do you/the National Mah Jongg League mean by “IN the rack?” If you call for/pick up a live discard, I thought it can only go ON the rack i.e. ON TOP OF THE RACK and must be exposed. I thought if it is IN the rack, it is not exposed and the tile is placed with your unexposed tiles.
I have read your columns and FAQs but I must have missed something about this. I look forward to receiving your clarification.
Thank you.
Deborah
Hi, Deborah!
"On the rack" versus "in the rack" just means "atop the rack" versus "on the sloping front of the rack." "On" and "in" is just shorthand. Mah-jongg explanations are difficult enough, that sometimes it's desirable to use fewer words.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, January 19, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
How do you teach slow players, part 2
Re: new teacher questions
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 01:16:47 PM EST, storyc wrote:
Thanks for your prompt response. Just to clarify, I play (and have played for 4 years) with a group of 3 ladies. And while they rely on me to get answers to problems, they don't want me to teach them. And they are slow and they have no desire to pick up the pace. I've quoted column 621 and 375 to them, to no avail. So, YES. I am the problemBlush As I said, I play quickly and let them be.
But when I teach I DO NOT want to pass on these bad habits
The 2 groups of ladies (5 in each group) who I will teach have never played Maj before. They are very much beginners. We will begin lessons next month. They are the ones I am concerned about. I want to make sure that I teach them properly.
Your book and website will be great tools. And, your advice with timing and keeping the Charleston moving will help too.
Thanks again.
Story
Okay, I see now. Good luck with both situations, Story!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, January 19, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
How do you teach slow players to play faster?
On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 03:11:18 PM EST, storyc wrote:
new teacher questions
Hi Mr Sloper,
I have been asked by 2 groups of ladies to teach them how to play Mahjong. I have been playing for 4 years now and have read both your book and Elaine Sandberg's book...numerous times. And watched tons of you-tube videos. In my group I am the one charged with researching a question or rule, so I am constantly reading your website.
My problem is that the person that taught , had really just learned herself. She showed us the basics but not all the details. And she never stressed keeping the Charleston and game moving. (she actually had us write down all possible hands!)
When you say going slowly gets everyone confused. I know it to be true! Weekly I hear, "where do we pass this time" or whose turn is it. I use your 4/5 step strategy for the Charleston and am pretty quick. I play online and like the "fast" games. But the rest of my group is so slow. Since I'm the only one who thinks we should "keep the game moving!" I just play quickly and let them be.
But as a teacher I want to make sure the new players learn the rules correctly and learn that the game should keep moving.
My questions- After they learn the tiles, the card, the rules, dealing...can you tell me how long a beginner should take to decide what to pass? I watch Michele Frizell Charleston Sprints and her recommended time threshold for the Charleston is 4 minutes for beginners. Which is around 10 seconds per pass. Should I encourage (or teach) my students to pass within 10 seconds? And strive to get faster? I have seen lots of instruction sheets for beginners and I have several books. But I need advice on timing and how best to teach it.
I just cannot imagine a 4 minute Charleston with my group. After 4 years, we still have times that a player takes 4 minutes to decide one pass.
Thanks in advance for helping me with the timing question. Any other advice would be appreciated.
And thank you for your great website.
Story
Hi, Story! So, as a teacher, you have the rules covered, but now you have a Slow Player problem.
When we're talking about new players (players who've played for less than, let's say, six months), you have to realize that American mah-jongg is more difficult to master than other forms of mah-jongg, since a player must make a hand from the yearly card ONLY, the card is a challenge for new players to read, and the rules for jokers in particular are rather complex.
But it's not only new players who may be guilty of playing too slowly. I wrote two columns on the topic of slow players.
Column 621 discusses the psychology of slow players. As a teacher of this game, you need to understand the psychology of your students.
Column 375 discusses some techniques you can try when faced with a slow player who's negatively affecting the group's fun.
Let's dig into some things you said:
Q: Weekly I hear, "where do we pass this time" or whose turn is it.
A: Since you were ASKED to be "the teacher," you can tell your students that they must announce every pass they make. And until the pace improves, you can also forbid your students to pick up the tiles passed to them until everybody has passed.
After the deal, you will surely be the first to say, "First Right." Then insist that every other player do the same after you. Then the phrase "First Across" has to be spoken by four players, then "First Left."
I've never done this, but since you have a pacing problem, After everyone has passed First Left, you can announce, "If anybody wants to stop the Charleston, speak now." After nobody says they want to stop (and 10 seconds have gone by), you can say "Second Left" and show everybody that they have to make a pyramid with their Second Left pass. And so on. Universal verbalization helps everyone keep track during the Charleston. Insist on it until the situation has improved greatly.
Q: I'm the only one who thinks we should "keep the game moving!"
A: If that's true, then I'm wasting my finger movements on my computer keyboard here. If everybody is happy with the slow pace, then the problem is YOU, not them.
But I'm guessing it's NOT true - that you're NOT the only one who wishes the game would move along. As a duly elected teacher, you have the right if not the duty to keep saying, "keep the game moving. Keep the game moving. Keep the game moving." The Marge Simpson technique of "gentle nagging" can be very effective.
Q: can you tell me how long a beginner should take to decide what to pass?
A: No. In a teaching situation, you can help the player choose what to pass, along with an explanation that will help everybody. But if you're an "elected teacher" who's actually a member of the play group, that's an entirely different situation. Michelle Frizzell's 10-second rule is not unreasonable. You can make it 15 seconds if you want (as I wrote in the Slow Player FAQ, FAQ 19-BA). When the time runs out, you can tell the player, "pass three or we'll each choose one for you."
Q: After 4 years, we still have times that a player takes 4 minutes to decide one pass.
A: ONE minute is an eternity in mah-jongg!! As I wrote in column 621, I think a slow player should not try so hard to win. If she just plays to keep up, she will improve eventually; winning will happen in time.
American mah-jongg is hard, and it takes some people longer to come up to speed.
Remind everyone that it's a group activity, for the group to have fun playing with one another. When one player dampens the entire group's fun, that player needs to change. Learning mah-jongg entails "paying tuition" through a lot of losses throughout the learning process.
That said, I have run into students who never rise to the challenge, never graduate. As a teacher, I've sometimes refused to teach those students any further lessons. But if you're a member of the play group, that's not an option that's available to you.
Q: Any other advice would be appreciated.
A: See FAQ 26.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Wednesday, January 18, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Can I bring an ivory set into the US?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 10:32:34 PM EST, Anonymous wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
So I have a MahJongg set that is a family heirloom (gifted to my grandfather by a chinese diplomat in 1920s). It is definitely ivory. I live in the US and I want to bring it here with me. The set is currently with my family in Mexico city. Is it possible to travel with it to the US without problems? I do not have a certificate of authenticity.
囧 I regret that I cannot advise you on legal matters. If you want to find out how to bring the set into the US legally, the only experts I can think of would be the US Customs Department. If no way can be found to bring it in, you might consider donating it to a museum in Mexico City. I'm afraid you have a difficult task ahead, with difficult decisions to make. Good luck!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Tuesday, January 17, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Win by joker redemption
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 03:41:17 PM EST, Joan K wrote:
Question
Player A discards a tile which is picked up by Player B and displayed. Player B then exchanges a joker from Player C's rack. Using that joker she calls Mah Jongg. Who is credited for giving her the Mah Jongg - did Player A give it to her with the discard (which did NOT make the Mah Jongg) or did she get it herself by taking (and using) the joker?
Thanks so much! Joan K
Hi, Joan!
Win by joker redemption is regarded as self-pick. Everybody pays the winner double. See FAQ 19-AN. This rule is also stated on the back of the NMJL card - left pane, see "Scoring" section near the bottom.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Monday, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
The 2023 Siamese card
Mah-Jongg Q A
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 11:11:04 AM EST, Laurin L wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: on the 2023 siamese card under the kitty is always straight can any numbers be used in the 2nd and 3rd and 5th row?
囧 Sorry, Laurin, but I don't have that card. You'll have to ask the card's designer. Go to siamesemahjongg.com, where you probably bought that card, and click "About/Contact Us."
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Monday, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Column 782, part 2
Re: Column#782 Dec.11,2022
On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 09:09:50 AM EST, olga b wrote:
Thank you, Tom, for such a prompt reply. I also read, though post factum, that you like to insert mistakes on purpose. Very sneaky of you!:)
Best,
Olga B
Sent from my iPhone
囧
Heh. Just joking. I don't really make mistakes on purpose. But I've learned that I don't have to get mad at myself every time I flub, since it affords 2-way discussion opportunities. By all means, keep that sharp eye out for missteps and let me know again when I goof.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Sunday, January 15, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Column
782
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 05:39:42 PM EST, olga b wrote:
Column#782 Dec.11,2022
Dear Mr.Sloper:
I am very new to the game, and it was a great discovery to find your books and the Sloperama, so informative and engaging.
I am confused about your column #782 from December 11, 2022.
In Number 10 I don’t see how you came up with key tiles- 1B, 2B and 3B.
I would say that key tiles are 4B, 5B and 3B.
I am sure you are very busy, but it would be great to have clarification.
Thank you.
Have a happy 2023!
Olga B
Sent from my iPad
You're quite right, Olga! I goofed. In fact, I also missed the flower pair in 369 #4. If you can see 7 flowers dead on the table, that too tells you what your opponent needs or can't use.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Saturday, January 14, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Donation
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 01:53:07 PM EST, service@paypal wrote:
Reference: MJ@Sloperama Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers - Donation from Sharon Y
Hello Thomas Sloper,
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Thank you very much, Sharon!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Saturday, January 14, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
I've tried dating it, part 2
Re: Era and info on set
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 02:26:12 PM EST, Ros B wrote:
Hello again,
Thanks very much for the response Tom. Yes, you're right, the remaining tiles are blank. I I've looked at the joker tiles more closely and the J symbols may be painted, although I wouldn't stake my life on it. I'll ask a jeweller friend to take a closer look. The case is an issue: leatherette is designed to look like leather (vinyl or plastic) but supposedly has a life of about 10 years. The interior trays are cardboard wrapped in shiny green material, so everything about the case suggests 50s to me. Maybe the set and case met later in life, although it fits pretty well, two side trays for the jokers blanks and dice.
The comment at the end simply means you must be a busy person, so I appreciate your response very much.
Best wishes, Ros.
G'day again, Ros. I doubt the tiles and case were joined together "later in life" as you say. If the "J" on the jokers is not inset into the plastic, they're painted or inked on, and the set probably is older than the 1970s. With an old case like that, I'd suggest not carrying it by the handle (handles have been known to give way when they become ancient).
As for your last comment, I see now that the comment was about my time, not storage capacity or anything like that. I tend to take things too literally sometimes! Enjoy your special set.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday the Thirteenth, January, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
I've tried dating it
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 05:41:09 AM EST, Ros B wrote:
Era and info on set
Dear Tom,
I've been searching far and wide for some kind of info on this set. It was sold as "Chinese Bakelite Phenolic 156 Mahjong Set NMJL" When my mahjong friends were over, opinions varied on its age and composition: from 1950s or 60s or even 70s to a bit further back. The tiles have what I think is a glued black back, weigh 9g, or 0.3 oz, a fraction over an inch tall, a bit over 1/8th inch wide and a little over 1/2 inch deep. ( 27*21*13 mm).
I've tried dating it through the instruction book, but that has no identification (I even checked out when staples were invented), its case (ditto for when leatherette was first manufactured, although it could be leather....?), and tried to find out whether it may be engraved rather than carved....
I bought it from Ireland, and live in Aust. and there's a bit of a dearth of info on mahjong between these two. I certainly have not seen any set like it before.
I hope you can help. I find your site a wealth of information and wonder how you fit it all in.
Warmest regards,
Ros.
Wow, Ros! The carving on those tiles is very ornate, very special. This is not an ordinary set. I shall go through your email and respond point by point.
1. You say it was sold as "156 Mahjong Set NMJL." Your photographs show only 152 tiles. I assume there are another 4 tiles, and that they are blank. In the 2nd image above, I see 8 tiles that have a "J" carved(?) into the corners. That indeed does make the set compatible with National Mah Jongg League play.
2. I've seen many sets in this style of case. Those cases are usually made of vinyl and falling apart, making me think your set might be 1950s-1960s. But because the set includes 8 jokers, I have to think the set was made in the 1970s. See column 509, which shows the number of flowers and jokers required by the NMJL. The standard of 8 flowers and 8 jokers wasn't settled until 1971. But back to #1 above; depends what those other 4 tiles are (the ones not photographed). Then again... if those white Js are just painted on, and not carved into, those 8 tiles, the set wasn't necessarily made in the 1970s.
3. The instruction book is infamous because of its ubiquity and its incomprehensible description of the game. You say you researched stapling. I'm pretty sure comic books of the early 1940s were stapled. The cover design of your instruction book is an earlier style, while the innards are surely identical to the instruction books still included in Chinese-made sets today.
4. When I first saw your photo of the case, I was amazed that it isn't falling apart. Closer examination of your photos shows that the case seems to be stitched to a sturdy-looking fabric (and the trays in the case are also made of that fabric). As I mentioned before, these cases are usually vinyl and deteriorated, so I wondered if yours is actually leather. You mentioned "leatherette," I don't know what that is exactly, but a close examination of the photo shows a crossgrain pattern, so it's not actual leather. Surprisingly sturdy, well preserved.
5. Lastly, I'm glad you appreciate my "wealth of information." When you added that you "wonder how [I] fit it all in," I don't know if there's a question there that I can answer.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday the Thirteenth, January, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
I went dead; were my jokers still available?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 07:07:12 PM EST, ildiko M wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: Today, 1-12-23, I exposed first a kong with three 7 cracks with one JOKER. Later I exposed a kong of three flowers with one JOKER. On my next turn I realized I was dead and rather loudly said so. Another mistake of course. But the real discussion was if the JOKERS were still in play as the “death” wasn't announced until after the next round of play. Many said the jokers were not playable. Others sited the card saying quote “JOKERS may be exchanged from any and all exposures that were made BEFORE the hand was declared “dead.” We went so far as to call the NMJL to get a ruling that initially sounded like the JOKERS were indeed unplayable but by the end of the conversation she actually supported the theory that the JOKERS are indeed playable. What are your thoughts on this?
Thank you!
Ildiko’ M
Hi, Ildiko!
The rule you cited is an inexact statement of the League's intent of the rule. The first exposure you made was ambiguous (nobody could tell from that first exposure that there would be any problem with your hand). But the second exposure was UNambiguous; your hand was dead. At the time somebody called you dead for having two exposures that don't match any hand on the card, your SECOND exposure needed to be returned to the sloping front of your rack. See full explanation of this rule in
FAQ 19-P.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, January 12, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
She didn't have a tile to discard (i.e. she didn't have enough tiles)
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 06:55:55 PM EST, Janine wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
In play today a player did not have a tile to discard because apparently at some point she inadvertently didn’t draw a tile before discarding. Should she have been out of the game at that time? Or could she continue playing without discarding?
Sent from my iPad
Hi, Janine!
You're saying she didn't have the proper number of tiles on her rack. After picking, if she only had 13 tiles, she's dead. But somebody has to call her dead. Read the death rules in FAQ 19-AA.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, January 12, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
I was told I was wrong. Was I?
On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 12:43:49 PM EST, Patty M wrote:
Rules Clarification request
Hello, I’m new to Mahjong and loving my Mahjong Monday get togethers! Of course, we still have rules questions - including the following question!
Can you please clarify for me a question regarding the 2022 grouping on the Official Standard Hands and Rules card?
I recently declared Mahjong and presented the following hand:
NN EEE 2022 WWJ SS
I was told I could not use a joker (J in above example) anywhere in the hand. It was my understanding that I could not use a joker in the 2022 grouping, but I could use a joker elsewhere in the hand. Can you please confirm the rule for the 2022 hands? I think we have confusion over hand versus grouping terms! Was my Mahjong valid or not?
Thanks much!
Patty M
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Patty!
Your mahj hand was fine. The other player was wrong. Show that other player the back of the card.
It says right there, "Jokers may be used… in any Pung, Kong, Quint, or Sextet." Make sure everybody at your table understands all the rules on the back of the card, and you really ought to get a rulebook too.
Left: The League's official rulebook. Every table should have an up-to-date copy!
I don't sell them, and I'm not paid to say this. Just sayin' it's important to have and read.
Right: And then there's my book, "The Red Dragon & The West Wind." - It's not bad, if I do say so myself.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Wednesday, 1/11/2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Finishing the Charleston and starting to play
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 05:48:51 PM EST, Roger S wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment #1. In the Charleston the last pass which is the optional, if one player wants to pass 2 tiles & the other player wants to pass three tiles, what is the correct answer?
#2. Which way does the the dealer give out the tiles, to the right or left?
#3. Which wall do you start with when starting the game?
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Roger!
1. In the courtesy ("optional") pass, no player has to exchange more than they want. The player who wants to exchange more must accede. See FAQ 19-AG for a complete breakdown of the Charleston and each of its movements.
2. The dealer takes their first 4 tiles from the end of the wall. Then the player at the dealer's right takes their first 4 tiles. The dealer doesn't deal out the tiles. The term is a misnomer. That player can also be called simply "East." In some Asian tables, the term used is "banker." See FAQ 19-CA for how the deal works.
3. East's wall is the one East breaks before taking their first 4 tiles. See FAQ 19-CH and FAQ 19-Q about how to begin a game.
Then, FAQ 19-DD explains how the deal moves to the next player to the previous dealer's seat after one game or hand ends.
If you don't want to buy a book on American/NMJL rules, and if my Mah-Jongg FAQs come up short, you should bookmark FAQ 4B. There are links to sites that describe American/NMJL rules very well. (My FAQs don't exactly describe them so much as answer questions about them.)
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Monday, January 9, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
What if two players call the discard but one has already exposed?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 02:24:33 PM EST, Ellen B wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
What is the rule if two people call the same tile for exposure and the player next in turn declares the tile hers even though the other player has exposed her tiles?
Sent from my iPad
Hi, Ellen! This is a case of conflicting claims for the discard. All the conflicting claims questions are answered in FAQ 19-H. If the player next in turn spoke after the other player had spoken and exposed, next in turn is too late.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Saturday, January 7, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Which style should I learn next?
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 07:49:13 AM EST, Frank A wrote:
Different mahjong styles
Happy first week of 2023, Tom.
Thanks a lot for creating your website. I've learned a lot since I discovered it a few days ago.
I learned to play mahjong in 1981, shortly after our family moved to the Philippines. In 1990, after I got stationed in Japan as an active duty Marine, I told myself that I would learn other styles of mahjong. But we partied so much in Japan, I never did make time to learn it there.
I bought a set in 1995 when our ship pulled into multiple ports in Asia. I used that set to teach 11 or more friends in Hawai'i. We used to have mahjong parties when we weren't out in the dance clubs. That was the last time I recall playing regularly, in early 1996.
I was surprised to find out on your website that the Vietnamese sets have so many tiles. I want to learn it now. I saw your comment in the FAQ. Do you have a secret Vietnamese mahjong rulebook? :P Since it has the most number of tiles, can those sets also be used to play other styles, such as American?
I'm going to text 2 of my Vietnamese friends tomorrow to find out if they play.
I'm currently in Southern California, but I'll be moving out of state for a job, possibly to Arizona. Which style should I learn next? Please reply when you have time.
Sincerely,
Frank
Hi, Frank! Let's take your questions one by one:
1. Do you have a secret Vietnamese mahjong rulebook? :P
A: Yes. There are three files to download in my Mah-Jongg downlode folder, sloperama.com/downlode/mahjongg/.
2. Since it has the most number of tiles, can those sets also be used to play other styles, such as American?
A: Yes. Those sets don't have Japanese red fives or Singaporean animals. Vietnamese jokers all look different from one another and aren't marked with the English word "Joker," but you can simply designate 8 of them as jokers, and there you go.
3. Which style should I learn next?
A: Over 20 years ago, I wrote FAQ 2A to help people decide which variant to learn. What it really comes down to is who are you going to be playing with, and whether those folks already play. But if your thing is just learning interesting variants and you're going to learn it together with some friends who don't already favor a variant, that's different.
You didn't specify, but I assume the variant you already know best is Filipino. It's a fairly easy variant to learn, on a par with Hong Kong Old Style. If your Vietnamese friends are available to play with you, learn from them.
You didn't say, but I assume the set you bought in the Asian seaport is a regular Chinese-style set. It doesn't have Japanese red fives or Vietnamese jokers, and it probably has 144 to 148 tiles (adding 4 blanks to the regular 144 tiles). You didn't say you have found a source where you can obtain a Vietnamese set with 160 or more tiles.
With a regular Chinese-style set, you can play just about any variant except American or Vietnamese. You can play Japanese riichi/dora majan without red fives (or you can mark red fives with a red marker). Japanese style is the most exciting to play, due to its high stakes features, but it has a steep learning curve. American (NMJL) style has the steepest learning curve, and requires those extra tiles that your set probably doesn't have.
My recommendation is to start with FAQ 2A, maybe get some books or at least read some websites. You could check out the mah-jongg intro from Shanghai: Second Dynasty, which goes into detail about some of the most popular variants.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Saturday, January 7, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Can P1 declare P2 dead when P1 realizes P2 can't win?
On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 01:31:30 PM EST, Bat-Ami L wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Can player 1 declare player 2 dead when player 1 realizes that the hand player 1 exposed can not be completed.
Sent from my iPad
Hi, Bat-Ami! I think you misstated the second part of your question, but I know what you meant.
- Player 1 can declare player 2 dead anytime.
- Player 1 can declare player 2 dead for having an unwinnable hand...
Provided that this unwinnability is visible to all players at the table.
See full explanation of the death challenge rules in FAQ 19-AA. And also read FAQ 19-AB, which discusses what a player can do if called dead incorrectly.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, January 6, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
The 2022 card, part 31
On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 12:57:23 PM EST, B. T wrote:
Mah-Jongg Q+A
My mah-jongg question or comment is: Second hand down in Quints category,
22 444 666 88888, must I use those numbers? Thank you, Tom.
Yes.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Friday, January 6, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Can I claim a Bonus double with one joker in a quint?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 04:18:41 PM EST, Annette Z wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Sent from Mail for Windows
What is the payout for a quint hand that only has one joker used in the Dragon and one joker used in the NO section and no joker in the Winds?
Example: DDDDJ NNNN 3333J
Is it considered pure and therefore double the payout?? (I realize there is not double payout in the singles and pairs hands)
Thank you
Hi, Annette!
No, the jokerless bonus cannot apply unless there are NO jokers in the hand. As explained in
FAQ 19-W.6, the difficulty of making a quint is built into the Quints scores. It's impossible to make a quint without a joker, so it's more difficult to make a quint, so the score is high for quint hands.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Thursday, January 5, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Oops! I didn't mean to do that! I changed my mind, can i take it back?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 06:59:50 PM EST, Cyndi G wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
If I discard my tile, then decide to keep it because I could get a joker from someone's displayed tiles. No one had drawn yet and racked. Can I pick that tile back up and get the joker?
囧 Sorry, Cyndi! The "Backsies" rules are spelled out in
FAQ 19-AM. Once you discarded, you can't take the tile back.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Wednesday, January 4, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Wondering when it was made and where.
On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 07:14:22 PM EST, E T <eunice.t wrote:
Origins of mahjong set
Hello there,
Happy new year and hope all is well.
I’ve been on a hunt on the origin of a mahjong set I bought from a flea market.
I found the exact set on your website (based on the flowers - however mine doesn’t have the Japanese kabuki joker tiles)
Wondering if you have any information on when it was made and where. And also from your website, it appeared they’re likely made of reconstituted fishbones!
Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Eunice
Sent from my iPhone
Hi, Eunice! HNY back2U. Based on the case style and the inclusion of the ubiquitous "Directions" booklet, I believe these sets were made somewhere in China. I saw these sets on sale in Los Angeles' Chinatown in the late nineties/early 2000s, so I believe they were made in the 1990s.
I stickered those jokers to make an American-playable set, with stickers created by a friend from my play group in the early 2000s. It was lucky that those sets came with 4 Chinese jokers and 4 blanks, so I could do it without having to cannibalize another set. But for this photo only, I did borrow 4 blanks and 4 Chinese jokers from another set. Those sets came with 152 tiles, not 160.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Wednesday, January 4, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Can I look at my tiles before they are all dealt?
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 07:16:31 AM EST, intoandana wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
Are you allowed to look at your tiles before they are all dealt?
Hi, intoandana! As I wrote in FAQ 19-BI, there's no rule that says you can't, but there's a good reason to refrain from looking until everyone has all their tiles. I explained the reason in the FAQ.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Wednesday, January 4, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Donation (recurring)
On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 06:12:32 AM EST, service@paypal wrote:
You received a payment
You received a payment from Evelyn H for Sloperama Mah-Jongg Answers
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Evelyn, thank you so much for your ongoing support. Wishing you all the best for 2023.
Tom
Those marvelously confusing joker rules, part 2
Re: Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 03:27:50 PM EST, Judy F wrote:
I thought I was asking marvelous mah jongg. So sorry to have wasted your time.
Sent from my iPad
No problem, Judy.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Those marvelously confusing joker rules
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 12:37:41 PM EST, juples wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is: on the marvelous mah jongg card under the sub atomic- can a joker be used in the 1-9 numbers?
Sent from my iPad
I haven't seen that card, juples. All I can tell you is that in American (NMJL) rules, jokers may be used in sets of three or more (pungs, kongs, quints, sextets) only. Never in a pair or for a single tile. "Atomic" usually refers to pairs, which would not be joker eligible.
The "Questions?" page on the mavelousmahjongg website indicates that the Marvelous joker rules are consistent with NMJL rules. And if you have more questions about the Marvelous card, why not ask marvelousmahjongg directly? There's an info email address you can find on the site.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
January 3, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Why wouldn't the computer let me declare mah-jongg?
Mah-Jongg Q A
On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 08:09:47 AM EST, Dolores M wrote:
My mah-jongg question or comment is:
I'm new to this site. Last evening I had Mahjongg on y rack but couldn't play it. The system kept asking me to discard when all I wanted to do way go Mahjongg. How do I play thecwin rather than discard ?
Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
Happy new year, Dolores.
I can't help you with your computer game question because you haven't given me enough information and you didn't include a screenshot.
Next time you try to obtain technical support for a videogame, you need to be prepared with the following information:
- What game you were playing (the game's title, that is to say, the name of the software or website)
- What mah-jongg variant you were playing (NMJL, Chinese Official, Japanese Riichi, Hong Kong, etc.)
- What tiles you were holding (this is where the screenshot comes in) and what hand you were making
- What you expected to happen, and what happened instead
If you were playing NMJL rules, FAQ 19-CV might explain what went wrong. Maybe you exposed a Concealed hand, or misread the hand on the card. You may find more information in FAQ 24 or FAQ 19's Computer Games section.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Monday, January 2, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
This particular player decides it's ok to break the rules.
On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 04:30:34 PM EST, Erica A. Z wrote:
"Friendly game"
I have been playing MJ for about 10 years with the same group. When we added a new member, and she missed the chance to redeem a joker, or made an error, we would let it slide. I have no problem with being easy on new players.
One member will often, but not regularly, want to let players redeem a joker they have missed, or forgive an error because it's a "friendly game." I am not a cutthroat player by any means, but I feel that these random decisions are unfair. Turns out everyone agrees with me, but will not object when this particular player decides it's ok to break the rules. I've already had two conversations with her about it and she knows it's unfair, but continues to do it.
Any suggestions?
Erica
(What in the name of holy bejaysus and all the suffering saints is this benighted cowpat?)
What in the name of holy bejaysus, Erica. I think this sentence of yours is key: "everyone agrees with me, but will not object when this particular player decides it's ok to break the rules. I've already had two conversations with her about it and she knows it's unfair, but continues to do it."
I'm glad you've brought the subject up with everyone. Now you're ready for the next step: announce that you're calling for a vote: either the group goes by the NMJL rules as per their rulebook, or the group decides, as a group, to use one or more table rules. This announcement could cause some stress to the group, but then there's already stress that's getting worse. Majority rule decides in a public way what the rules will be, going forward. Then maybe the other players will back you up next time you call this particular player out on her too-lenient treatment of the rules. Most likely, the reason she wants to be so lenient to others is so she can get a pass herself. And that don't fly.
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
New Year's Day, Sunday, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
l have an old mah Chiong set.
Mah-Jongg Q+A
On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 11:41:48 AM EST, Franklin L wrote:
My mah-Jonggquestion or comment is: l have an old mah Chiong set.
It has 144 tiles.
9 sets of Characters
9sets of Bamboos
9 sets of Dots
Also has many Dotted Ivory Counters.
Also instruct book from
Admiral Orient Line
What can you tell me about this set and where would be best place to sell it
Thank you
Happy new year, Franklin. You asked:
1. What can you tell me about this set
A: It's almost 100 years old, and it's not exactly rare. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask. I might be able to answer, if the questions are narrowly focused.
2. where would be best place to sell it
A: eBay, or any site or app that people use for selling stuff these days. See my "Tips For Sellers" of mah-jongg items. Good luck with your sale!
Play safe out there. And
may the tiles be with you.
Tom Sloper
Author of "The Red Dragon & The West Wind," the definitive book on Mah-Jongg East & West.
Author of the
Sloper On Mah-Jongg column and
the Mah-Jongg FAQs
Donations appreciated
Sunday, New Year's Day, 2023
Rochester, New York, USA
Happy new year, dear reader! May we walk back from the hate and strife of 2022, and may our eyes be opened to the need to address climate change.
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